♪♪ >> CATHY: TWO FORMER "STAR TRIBUNE" REPORTERS JUST RELEASED A NEW BOOK THIS TUESDAY ENTITLED "SEA OF GRASS: THE CONQUEST, RUIN, AND REDEMPTION OF NATURE ON THE AMERICAN PRAIRIE."

THE RELEASE SPOTLIGHTS THE AREA AND ITS HISTORY, BUT ALSO THE LOSS OF THE ONCE ABUNDANT TALL GRASS PRAIRIE INCLUDING IN WESTERN MINNESOTA.

LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN UNEARTH WITH THE BOOK'S AUTHORS.

DAVE HAGE IS HERE WITH US AND JOSEPHINE MARCOTTY.

WELCOME BACK TO YOU BOTH.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

I LAUGHED OUT LOUD WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO AN INTERVIEW WITH YOU GUYS AND I BELIEVE SOMEONE DESCRIBED THE PRAIRIE S THE RODNEY DANGERFIELD OF ECOSYSTEMS.

[ Laughter ] EXPAND ON THAT, IF YOU WOULD?

>> YEAH, IT WAS THE LAST OF THE MAJOR ECOSYSTEMS TO GET ITS OWN NATIONAL PARK BECAUSE IT WASN'T MAJESTIC AND GORGEOUS.

BUT MORE SERIOUSLY, I THINK WE MIDWESTERNERS, WE TAKE THE PRAIRIE FOR GRANTED.

IT'S THE FLAT BORING PART BEFORE YOU ET TO THE MOUNTAINS.

BUT PEOPLE WHO LOVE THE PRAIRIE, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM, THEY KNOW A LITTLE SECRET.

IF YOU GET OUT OF YOUR CAR AND WADE INTO THAT DEEP GRASS, IT'S JUST A RIOT OF COLOR AND SOUND.

IT'S SONG BIRDS, FINCHES, MEADOW LARKS, IT'S GOLDEN ROD AND COLUMBINE AND ASKERS, IT'S JUST THIS RICH, RICH WORLD.

AND THE COOL THING IS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES, SCIENTISTS HAVE BECOME TO DISCOVER THAT TOO.

AND THEY'RE STUDIESING PRAIRIE PLANTS, PRAIRIE SOILS AND I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY, I THINK THERE ARE QUITE A FEW SIGN SCIENTISTS WHO WOULD SAY IT'S ON A PAR WITH THE AMAZON RAIN FOREST IS AS A VALUABLE ECOSYSTEM.

>> Cathy: SO IT'S GETTING MORE RESPECT?

>> YES, HOPEFULLY.

I THINK THE WORLD IS BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS IN ADDITION TO BEING A BEAUTIFUL PLACE, IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT CARBON SINK AND IT'S ALSO THE PLACE WHERE MANY OF OUR SPECIES HAVE TO EXIST AND SURVIVE, INCLUDING BIRDS.

I MEAN, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'VE SEEN SUCH A MASSIVE DECLINE IN BIRDS IN THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES IS ECAUSE OF THE LOSS OF GRASSLANDS AND THE PRAIRIE POT HOLES WHICH ARE PART OF THE WETLANDS IN THAT SYSTEM.

>> Eric: THIS WAS NOT A PROBLEM THAT STARTED YESTERDAY.

I READ IN THE BOOK WHERE IT WAS, LIKE, 1890, MOST OF THE LOCAL PRAIRIE WAS GONE.

>> RIGHT.

>> WE THINK OF SORT OF TWO SECTIONS.

MAYBE THREE.

BUT THE EASTERN TAL GRASS PRAIRIE WHERE THE GRASS WAS, YOU KNOW, OVER YOUR HEAD, ILLINOIS, IOWA, PLACES LIKE THAT, WAS TAKEN OVER FOR FARMING IN THE 19TH CENTURY.

THAT'S NOW 99% GONE.

TALL GRASS PRAIRIE, 1% IS LEFT.

THE WESTERN TALL GRASS PRAIRIE, FARMING DIDN'T TAKE OFF.

IT'S VERY DRY.

THE WEATHER IS DIFFICULT.

IT'S REMOTE.

AND SO ABOUT 40% OF THE WESTERN SHORT GRASS PRAIRIE STILL EXISTS BECAUSE IT STAYED IN CATTLE AND RANCHING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO PROTECT NOW.

THAT'S HAT'S DISAPPEARING.

A MILLION ACRES A YEAR DISAPPEARING NOW.

>> Cathy: THE GREAT JIM BRANDENBURGER OF COURSE IS FROM LUVERNE, MINNESOTA, HE TALKED A LOT ABOUT SAVING THE PRAIRIE, BUT DO YOU THINK T'S TOO LATE?

>> NO, IN FCT, ONE OF THE CHAPTERS IN OUR BOOK FOCUSES ON GLACIAL RIDGE WILDERNESS AREA UP IN NORTHWEST MINNESOTA WHICH IS THE LARGEST PRAIRIE RESTORATION AREA IN THE COUNTRY.

>> Eric: AND THAT'S A BIG SUCCESS STORY?

>> YEAH, FOR SURE.

THEY WERE ABLE TO BRING BACK 24,000 ACRES F GRASSLAND.

AND COMBINE IT WITH MANY OF THE OTHER NATURAL AREAS THAT ARE UP THERE.

INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE NATURAL SCIENTIFIC AREAS.

SO NOW IT'S A COMPLEX OF GRASSLANDS, 55 SQUARE MILES IN SIZE.

>> Eric: AND THAT'S A JOINT EFFORT OF THE LEGACY MONEY THAT WE GET HERE IN MINNESOTA AND I THINK NATURE CONSERVANCY MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED?

SO DO YOU NEED KIND OF A CONCERTED EFFORT I GUESS?

>> RIGHT, WELL, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT TO BRING BACK GRASSLAND.

IT'S VERY HARD TO TAKE LAND OUT OF PRODUCTION.

AND HAVE A COMMUNITY BUY INTO IT, BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR TAX BASE AND THAT'S THEIR INCOME.

THAT'S THEIR WAY OF LIFE.

BUT ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS THAT GLACIAL RIDGE HAD IS THAT THE TOWN OF CROOKSTON NEEDED A SOURCE OF CLEAN DRINKING WATER.

AND SO THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT BY PROTECTING THE PRAIRIE BECAUSE THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GIVES YOU CLEAN WATER IS THE NATURAL AREA LIKE THAT.

>> Cathy: SO LARGE SCALE AGRICULTURE PROBABLY, YOU CAN LOOK TO THAT AS MAYBE AVING A ROLE IN THIS OBVIOUSLY.

SO WHAT'S THE ROLE OF LARGE SCALE AGRICULTURE IN TRYING TO RESTORE THE RAIRIE?

IF THERE IS A ROLE?

>> YEAH.

UM, IN THE BOOK, WE'RE CRITICAL OF OUR CURRENT FARMING SYSTEM.

THESE LARGE FARMS.

CAPITAL INTENSIVE.

WE'RE NOT ANTI-FARMER, BECAUSE THE FARMERS WE MET, REPORTING THE BOOK, WERE WONDERFUL, GENEROUS, HARDWORKING, BRILLIANT.

I MEAN, IF YOU SURVIVED AS A FARMER THROUGH THE '80s AND '90s, YOU'RE A GOOD FARMER.

THE TROUBLE IS THAT, AS FEDERAL MATTER, FOR THE FARM BILL, WE GIVE THEM ALL THE WRONG INCENTIVES.

THE FARM BILL, FEDERAL FAMILY FM SUBSIDIES, ALL PUSH FARMERS IN THE DIRECTION OF PLOWING MORE LAND, USING MORE CHEMICALS, SPECIALIZING IN CORN AND SOYBEANS.

A MONO CULTURE OUT THERE.

THAT'S BAD.

NATURE DOES NOT LIKE A MONOCULTURE.

NATURE LIKE DIVERSITY.

BUT FOR FARMERS, IT'S HARDER AND HARDER.

YOU CAN GROW OATS.

YOU CAN'T SELL IT.

YOU COULD GROW BARLEY.

YOU CAN'T SELL IT.

>> Cathy: I'M CURIOUS, WHY IS THIS OF INTENSE INTEREST TO YOU BOTH?

>> WELL, YOU CAN'T REALLY BE AN ENVIRONMENTAL WRITER OR AN ENVIRONMENTAL REPORTER IN MINNESOTA WITHOUT WRITING ABOUT GRASSLANDS AND WITHOUT WRITING ABOUT FARMING.

AND SO -- BUT IT WAS ALSO SOMETHING THAT WE LEARNED TO REALLY APPRECIATE DOING THAT REPORTING.

YOU KNOW, OVER THOSE MANY YEARS.

AND ALSO, THAT IT WAS -- I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN THEY FLY OVER THE MIDDLE PART OF THE COUNTRY, AND THEY LOOK DOWN, THEY SEE -- THEY THINK IT'S JUST EMPTY LAND.

YOU KNOW, YOU DRIVE THROUGH SOUTH DAKOTA, YOU THINK, THERE'S NOTHING HERE.

IT'S JUST EMPTY LAND.

WHEN IN FACT, IT'S A MARVELOUS ECOSYSTEM AND A PLACE OF MIRACULOUS SPACE AND LIGHT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY FEEL AS IF IT WAS UNDERAPPRECIATED.

AND THAT WE'VE LOST SOMETHING LIKE THE TALL GRASS PRAIRIE IS GONE.

AND SO WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT WE LOST.

WE WILL NEVER APPRECIATE WHAT WE LOST BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT THERE ANYMORE EXCEPT FOR ANY FEW PATCHES.

BUT THERE IS STILL SOMETHING WORTH SAVING IN THE WESTERN GRASSLANDS AND THERE'S A WAY TO DO AGRICULTURE BETTER.

>> Eric: GOT TO RUN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Cathy: IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU GUYS AGAIN.

>> Eric: QUICKLY, ON JUNE 5TH, WHAT DO YOU GOT?

>> MAGERS AND QUINN.