>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Cathy: IT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT DAY.

COMING UP ON "ALMANAC," PROFESSOR DAVID SCHULTZ ON THE FLURRY OF ACTIVITY OUT OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT TODAY.

LARRY FITZGERALD TALKS TIMBERWOLVES AND TARGET CENTER.

WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THE NEW SEASON OF "RELISH."

AND MARY LAHAMMER WAS AT THE CAPITOL FRIDAY AFTERNOON.

>> Mary: FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER MELISSA HORTMAN BECOMES THE FIRST WOMAN TO LIE IN STATE IN MINNESOTA HISTORY, ALONG WITH HER HUSBAND, MARC, AND BELOVED DOG, ILBERT.

>> MINNESOTA POLITICS, YEAH, IT HAS CHANGED, I'M SHOCKED.

>> IT'S KIND OF ONE WAY TO MAKE A STATEMENT AGAINST POLITICAL VIOLENCE, NOT ONLY JUST HERE IN MINNESOTA BUT THROUGHOUT OUR NATION.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> CATHY: IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL TALK TIMBERWOLVES AND TWINS WITH LARRY FITZGERALD.

KAOMI LEE TAKES US TO MINNESOTA'S FIRST TRIBAL OFF-RESERVATION MARIJUANA DISPENSARY.

WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THE TEN-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION GRANTING MARRIAGE EQUALITY.

>> ERIC: AND THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IS WHERE WE START TONIGHT.

IT'S BEEN ANOTHER BUSY WEEK IN WASHINGTON, BEGINNING WITH LAST SATURDAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE U.S. MILITARY STRUCK THREE NUCLEAR SITES IN IRAN.

AND THE WEEK ENDED WITH A FLURRY OF U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISIONS ON FRIDAY.

DAVID SCHULTZ TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY AND IS ALSO AN ADJUNCT LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS.

WELCOME BACK.

6-3 DECISION FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

LIMITING THE ABILITY OF LOWER COURT JUDGES TO ISSUE LIKE A NATIONWIDE PROHIBITION ON WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS.

>> YES.

OKAY, SO THE COURT AVOIDED WHAT MOST PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE THE MAJOR QUESTION.

THE MAJOR QUESTION WAS, CAN AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BY THE PRESIDENT BASICALLY OVERTURN BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP?

THE COURTS SAID, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THAT QUESTION.

THE QUESTION THEY ADDRESSED, INSTEAD, WAS WHETHER OR NOT, AS YOU SAID, LOWER COURT JUDGES, FEDERAL JUDGES, COULD BASICALLY ISSUE AN INJUNCTION OR PREVENT THE PRESIDENT FROM GOING FORWARD, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO -- ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AS OPPOSED TO ONE CASE AT A TIME.

AND THE COURT SAID, NEITHER THE CONSTITUTION NOR THE JUDICIARY ACT OF 1789 ALLOWS THAT.

NOW, HOW DO WE ALL INTERPRET THIS?

IT'S A WIN FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BECAUSE WHAT IT NOW MEANS IS THAT HE CAN PROCEED, OR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CAN PROCEED, TO STILL TRY TO EXPEL OR DEPORT PEOPLE, AND EACH PERSON FACING DEPORTATION IS GOING TO HAVE TO CHALLENGE OR BRING THE CASE THEMSELVES.

SO, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED CASE, ISSUE OUT THERE, BUT, MOST OF US ARE SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT GETS A WIN BECAUSE THE COURT BASICALLY AVOIDED DIRECTLY CONFRONTING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> Cathy: AND, SO, AS YOU SAY, THOSE AFFECTED WOULD HAVE TO DIRECTLY BRING A CASE.

THEY CAN'T DO THAT, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT.

>> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

IMMIGRATION COURTS ARE REALLY STACKED AGAINST PEOPLE TO START WITH.

ADDITIONALLY, A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING ATTORNEYS, AND I THINK THE OTHER REPERCUSSION FROM THIS IS GOING TO BE IS THAT IT'S GOING TO ABSOLUTELY CLOG THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION COURTS BECAUSE I'VE SEEN SOME ESTIMATES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT NUMBER IS, 200 TO TO 300,000 PEOPLE A YEAR ARE POTENTIALLY AFFECTED BY THIS DECISION.

OUR IMMIGRATION AND OUR FEDERAL COURTS CAN'T HANDLE THAT MANY CASES.

>> Eric: BUT THE RULING MEANS THAT THE PRESIDENT, SOME OF HIS ORDERS ARE BACK IN PLAY, RIGHT?

>> THEY ARE BACK IN PLAY AT THIS POINT ALSO.

AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING, BECAUSE THE COURT WASN'T CLEAR IN TERMS OF HOW BROAD THE RULING OR -- I THINK AT ONE POINT IT SAID INJUNCTIONS CAN ONLY GO, BE AS BROAD AS NECESSARY.

THOSE ARE NOT VERY CLEAR WORDS.

SO ON A WHOLE BUNCH OF ISSUES, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF IMMIGRATION AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IS PROBABLY A LOT OF LITIGATION GOING ON BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WHERE ALL THE FIGHTS ARE GOING ON IS REGARDING EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THEY'RE REGARDING THE SCOPE OF HOW FAR THE PRESIDENT CAN GO IN TERMS OF FILL IN THE BLANK, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

THIS IS NOW GOING TO BASICALLY MAKE IT CASE-BY-CASE SITUATION HERE.

>> Cathy: EXPLAIN, IF YOU WOULD, THE LGBTQ BOOK DECISION, WHERE PARENTS, IF THEY'RE DISPLEASED, THE BOOKS DEALING WITH LGBTQ INDIVIDUALS OR ISSUES, THEY CAN PULL THEIR KID OUT OF THE SCHOOL, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THEY CAN PULL THEIR KID OUT OF THE SCHOOL OR JUST NOT HAVE THEIR CHILD READ THAT MATERIAL.

>> Cathy: SURE.

>> NOW, THIS IS NOT A CASE ABOUT, LET'S SAY, SCHOOL CENSURESHIP OF BOOKS, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY ENTIRELY.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, HERE, IF I'M A ARENT, I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA THAT MY SON OR DAUGHTER IS GOING TO HAVE TO READ A PARTICULAR OOK, THE COURT IS SAYING, ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS, FREE EXERCISE GROUNDS, I CAN SAY, MY CHILD DOES NOT HAVE TO READ THAT BOOK, AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, MAYBE EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT THERE, IF THERE'S ANY TESTING MATERIALS OR ANY, LET'S SAY, CURRICULUM OF WHICH MY CHILD'S GOING TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR, Y CHILD CAN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR.

AGAIN, STILL PHRASED ANOTHER WAY, IF MY CHILD DOESN'T READ PARTICULAR BOOK THERE, YOU CAN'T GRADE HIM ON NOT READING THAT BOOK OR PENALIZING.

>> Cathy: IT LOOKS LIKE THE PRESIDENT WON THREE OUT OF FOUR CASES.

THE CASE HE LOST, THOUGH, THAT WAS THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD CASE, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THE PRESIDENT ACTUALLY DID VERY WELL.

I EAN, THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD CASE IS THE ONE REGARDING THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND REGARDING PREVENTIVE HEALTHCARE.

>> Cathy: THAT'S CORRECT.

>> SO AT THIS POINT, YOU COULD STILL GET PREVENTIVE HEALTHCARE.

THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD ONE IS A DIFFERENT ONE.

>> Cathy: SORRY.

IT'S VERY CONFUSING.

>> IT IS EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO TEACH IT.

BASICALLY IN THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD CASE, WHAT THE COURT SAID, PEOPLE ON MEDICAID, YOU CAN NO LONGER BRING WHAT'S CALLED A PRIVATE CAUSE OF ACTION IF MEDICAID SERVICES ARE NOT SUBSTANTIALLY PROVIDING THE SERVICES YOU WANT.

THIS POTENTIALLY SETS UP A SITUATION NOW WHERE STATES CAN DEFUND MEDICAID OR NOT ROVIDE PARTICULAR TYPES OF SERVICES, AND YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL CAN'T GO TO COURT TO SUE REGARDING IT.

>> Eric: IF YOU'VE GOT 30 SECONDS ON WHERE WE'RE HEADED IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> OULD -- WHERE WE'RE HEADED IN THE MIDDLE EAST AT THIS POINT, THE QUESTION IS, DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY IF HE WANTS TO OMB AGAIN?

IT'S NOT CLEAR HE HAD THAT AUTHORITY ORIGINALLY.

>> Eric: HE SAID TODAY HE'S WILLING TO.

>> HE'S WILLING TO AT THIS POINT.

IT'S NOT CLEAR -- LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY, THE WAR POWERS ACT, WHICH IS ONE WAY OF LIMITING PRESIDENTIAL POWER, REQUIRES HIM TO GET CONGRESSIONAL ASCENT.

CONGRESS HAS TO DECLARE WAR.

HE'S OPERATING IN THE ZONE THAT WE'VE BEEN AT FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS, IT'S OT CLEAR WHAT HE CAN DO.

>> Eric: WE'VE GOT YOU ON SPEED DIAL.

>> A LOT OF STUFF HERE TODAY.

>> Cathy: NICELY DONE.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> CATHY: MINNESOTA’S FIRST TRIBAL OFF-RESERVATION MARIJUANA DISPENSARY OPENED ONE MONTH AGO.

THE RETAIL STORE IN MOORHEAD IS POSSIBLE THROUGH A COMPACT BETWEEN THE STATE AND THE WHITE EARTH BAND OF OJIBWE.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE WENT TO CLAY COUNTY TO SEE THIS HISTORY-MAKING FACILITY.

>> Kaomi: IT'S ANOTHER BUSY DAY AT THE CANNABIS DISPENSARY IN MOORHEAD.

COLORFUL ND BRIGHT AND AN OJIBWE FLOWER PATTERN ON THE WALLS AND AN EXPLANATION OF OJIBWE VALUES GREET CUSTOMERS.

A MEMBER OF THE SISSETON WAHPETON OYÁTE WAS THERE BEFORE IT OPENED.

>> I ONLY GOT A PREROLL TODAY.

SO JUST GOING TO BE LIKE A LITTLE DOOBIE.

>> Kaomi: TODAY SHE AND FRIEND, ANTON WADE, PURCHASED A CANNABIS IS HE THEY'VE APRODUCT CALLED LEMON OC HAZE.

IT PERTAINS 20% THC.

IT BOASTS 50 DIFFERENT FLAVORS FOR ITS PRODUCTS.

>> I LIKE IT.

IT'S A REALLY GOOD BRAND.

YOU CAN REALLY TASTE THE LEMON IN HERE.

>> Kaomi: THE CEO WAS BROUGHT IN BY HITE EARTH TO BUILD AND OVERSEE THE TRIBE'S ORIGINAL 15 MILLION CANNABIS ENTERPRISE.

TWO YEARS AGO, WHITE EARTH OPENED THE STATE'S SECOND CANNABIS DISPENSARY.

HE SAID THEY'RE NOW AT 130 EMPLOYEES.

AND THE NEW DISPENSARY IN MOORHEAD IS ALREADY SEEING TRIPLE THE TRAFFIC.

>> BEING IN A BIGGER METROPOLIS, A BIGGER CITY, A LOT MORE ACCESSIBILITY FOR FOLKS.

>> Kaomi: THEY'RE NOW ABLE TO TAP INTO THE FARGO-MOORHEAD METROPOLITAN AREA, ESTIMATED AT 261,000 PEOPLE.

A STATE COMPACT BETWEEN WHITE EARTH AND THE STATE MADE IT POSSIBLE.

>> IT'S TWO GOVERNMENTS, YOU KNOW, CO-EQUAL, COMING TOGETHER.

>> Kaomi: ERIC TAUBEL IS THE INTERIM HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT.

HE SAID THE COMPACT OUTLINES JURISDICTIONS REGARDING CANNABIS OPERATIONS OFF THE RESERVATION AND IS NATION LEADING.

>> MOST OF THE STATES HAVE RESERVED THE ACTIVITY FOR TRIBAL NATIONS TO ON RESERVATION, BUT LET THEM BECOME SORT OF STATE LICENSEES AND MOVE THROUGH THE STATE SYSTEM.

IN MINNESOTA, WE'VE TAKEN A DIFFERENT APPROACH.

>> Kaomi: WHITE EARTH WILL ASSUME REGULATORY AUTHORITY OVER TS OFF-RESERVATION DISPENSARIES.

WHITE EARTH SAYS ITS TESTING HAS HIGHER RIGOR THAN THE STATE STANDARD.

IT USES A SEED TO SALE TRACKING SYSTEM TO PREVENT PRODUCT ENDING UP ON THE BLACK MARKET.

OFF-RESERVATION PRODUCTS WILL ALSO HAVE A LOWER THC CONTENT, DIFFERENT PACKAGING, AND DISPENSARIES WILL MAINTAIN DISTANCES FROM SCHOOLS AND PARKS.

TAUBEL SAID IT WAS IMPORTANT AND STATUTORILY MANDATED THAT TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY BE RESPECTED.

>> I THINK THE OVERALL SERIES OF CHOICES THAT WERE MADE AND THE LEGALIZATION MOVEMENT REALLY FOCUSED ON BROADLY GRANTING OPPORTUNITY TO GROUPS OR, IN THIS CASE, TRIBAL NATIONS, THAT HAD BEEN HARMED IN SOME WAY BY PROHIBITION.

>> Kaomi: HE SAYS THE STATE'S 11 NATIVE TRIBES OFTEN SCORE HIGH ON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC VULNERABILITIES, LIKE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE RECEIVING S.N.A.P.

AND W.I.C.

BENEFITS AND THOSE IN POVERTY.

THEY'RE ALSO OFTEN IN RURAL AREAS WHERE THERE'S FEWER JOBS.

>> WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HARM REPAIR, HELPING FELLOW MINNESOTANS SUCCEED, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT CAN BE GENERATED THROUGH CANNABIS ACTIVITY FOR TRIBAL NATIONS IS ONE WAY TO REALLY DRIVE ECONOMIC BENEFIT.

>> Kaomi: WHILE WHITE EARTH MAY BE THE FIRST TO OPEN AN OFF-RESERVATION CANNABIS DISPENSARY, THE STATE IS AR INTO TALKS WITH FOUR TO SIX OTHER TRIBES.

ZACH WILSON ACKNOWLEDGES THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE OPEN MARKET.

FOR NOW.

>> THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF DOWNSIDE TO THAT.

BEING THAT NOW THE CRITICS ARE EVEN MORE SO OUT AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT, AGAIN, OUR PRODUCTS ARE SAFE AND OF HIGH-QUALITY STANDARDS BECAUSE ALL EYES ARE ON US.

>> Kaomi: A CANNABIS TAX OF 15% TAKES EFFECT JULY 1st.

THE PAYMENTS ARE SHARED BY THE TRIBE AND THE STATE.

THOUGH EXACT BREAKDOWN IS STILL BEING NEGOTIATED.

REGULAR STATE SALES AND LOCAL TAXES STILL APPLY.

>> THE BUSINESS THAT OPENED UP, WE ARE TREATING AS A BUSINESS, WITH SOME SPECIAL RULES AND REGULATIONS.

>> Kaomi: MOORHEAD MAYOR SHELLY CARLSON SAID WHITE EARTH MET THE LOCAL ZONING WILL ALSO PAY PROPERTY TAXES.

CARLSON SAYS THE DISPENSARY COULD DRIVE DOLLARS ACROSS THE STATE LINE.

>> OST OF THE TIME, IF YOU'RE NOT FROM THIS AREA, AND YOU'RE IN OUR COMMUNITY, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO KNOW IF YOU'RE IN FARGO OR MOORHEAD.

>> Kaomi: BORDER CITIES AND DIFFERENT STATE LAWS POSE CHALLENGES.

REC CESSIONAL -- RECREATIONAL USE CANNABIS IS ILLEGAL IN NORTH DAKOTA, POSSESSING MORE THAN A HALF OUNCE IS IS A -- IS A MISDEMEANOR.

MINNESOTA LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL CANNABIS IN 2023.

HERE ANYONE 91 AND OLDER CAN POSSESS UP TO TWO OUNCES IN PUBLIC.

THE DISPENSARY SELLS TO ANYONE OF AGE, REGARDLESS OF ADDRESS.

FARGO POLICE CHIEF SAYS BASED ON NATIONAL DATA, I ANTICIPATE THE OPENING OF A CANNABIS DISPENSARY IN MOORHEAD WILL LEAD TO AN INCREASE IN IMPAIRED DRIVING.

NEVERTHELESS, THE FARGO POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMITTED TO KEEPING OUR COMMUNITY SAFE.

THE DISPENSARY IS NOT STOPPING HERE.

IT'S SET TO OPEN A St.

CLOUD LOCATION NEXT MONTH.

HOWEVER, ITS EXACT ADDRESS HAD NOT YET REACHED THE MAYOR.

>> I THINK I READ ABOUT IT, BUT IT WAS MORE DIRECTLY WHEN I HEARD IT FROM YOU.

>> Kaomi: HE SAYS THE CITY HAS A LIMIT OF SIX DISPENSARIES.

IT WILL REALLY MAKE US EVALUATE WHAT WE'RE DOING LOCALLY SO THAT WE'RE NOT CREATING AN UNFAIR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE FOR EITHER SIDE.

>> Kaomi: LOCAL AID PAYMENTS FRS TAX WERE REPEALED IN THE TAX BILL, IN COUNTIES ALREADY RECEIVING -- AND COUNTIES ALREADY RECEIVING PAYMENTS WILL LOSE THEM AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

REGARDLESS, THE MAYOR SAYS CANNABIS COULD BE GOOD FOR HIS CITY.

>> THERE'S A HOPE THAT FOLKS GET A BETTER FEEL FOR St.

CLOUD, THEY COME TO St.

CLOUD THAT OTHERWISE WOULD NOT HAVE COME TO St.

CLOUD.

>> Eric: ON MONDAY, TWIN CITIES PBS PREMIERED THE SIXTH SEASON OF THE FOOD AND CULTURE SHOW "RELISH."

WITH CHEF YIA VANG.

ALL EPISODES ARE AVAILABLE TO STREAM ON THE PBS APP AND TPT.ORG.

WE'RE GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH THE SHOW'S PRODUCER IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT HERE'S A LITTLE APPETIZER FOR YOU.

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE ABLE TO COOK TOGETHER, GATHER TOGETHER IN THIS INTERGENERATIONAL GROUP?

>> CHAOS.

[ Laughter ] >> BUT THERE IS NOTHING LIKE IT.

>> FOR YOU LIKE GROWING UP, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE FASTING, HERE'S ALL THIS WONDERFUL SMELL AND EVERYTHING.

>> YOU FAST, SO YOU CAN HAVE THE SAMBUSA.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NOTICED WAS ALL THE HANDS THAT WERE INVOLVED.

>> WHEN YOU MAKE THINGS TOGETHER, THE BOND BECOMES EVEN STRONGER.

>> GROWING UP THEN, DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU LIVED IN TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS?

>> I DID.

IT'S ONLY GOING UP, YOU TRULY EMBRACE WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU LIKE.

I LOVE FRENCH FOOD.

>> OH, MY GOSH.

>> WHEN YOU IMMEDIATELY LOOK AT THE PLATE, IT IS THE ESSENCE, IT IS THE MELTING POT.

>> DUDE!

IT IS DEFINITELY NOT TUNA FROM A CAN.

>> HAWAIIAN STYLE, THEY LIKE REAL NICE THICK CHUNKS.

>> CUT IT LIKE THIS.

♪♪ >> COULD I USE THE BOARD?

>> YEAH, YOU CAN USE THE BOARD.

>> YES, OKAY.

♪♪ >> WHEN HE GETS A LITTLE BIT OLDER, HE'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT HIS DISH, AND HE'S GOING TO THINK ABOUT THESE MOMENTS, AND HE'S GOING TO REFLECT BACK AND GO, YEAH, I'M GOING TO PASS THIS DOWN.

>> ANOTHER ONE.

>> HAVE ANOTHER ONE.

>> DO YOU EVER GET SICK OF THIS?

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN, EATING?

>> EATING SWEETS, DOING ALL THIS.

>> NO.

>> DO YOU?

>> NO.

>> ERIC: JOINING US NOW IS ONE OF THE SHOW'S PRODUCERS BRITTANY SHRIMPTON.

EAGLE-EYED FANS OF OUR SHOW MIGHT RECOGNIZE HER FROM "THE WRAP" AS A GUEST AND GUEST HOST.

YOU OVERCAME THAT, YOU'VE GONE ON TO GREAT SUCCESS.

>> I MEAN, THEY REALLY HAVE TO BE EAGLE-EYED TO GET THAT REFERENCE.

>> Eric: JAMES BEARD MEDIA AWARD.

SHOW IT TO THE CAMERA THERE.

>> Cathy: CONGRATULATIONS, BY THE WAY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS?

>> SO WE SUBMITTED TO BE CONSIDERED FOR A JAMES BEARD MEDIA AWARD.

AND A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, WE WERE NOMINATED AND INVITED TO THE CEREMONY, AND WE WON!

WHICH WAS A HUGE THRILL.

>> Eric: YOU WERE AGAINST SOME IG-NAME TALENT.

>> YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE ASKED US BEFORE WE WENT TO THE CEREMONY, OH, YOU'RE GOING TO THE JAMES BEARD MEDIA AWARDS, HAVE WE -- DO WE KNOW YOU?

HAVE WE SEEN YOU?

AND I SAID, I MIGHT BE SURPRISED, BECAUSE WE WERE IN CHICAGO, AND THEN WE SAID, BUT WE'RE UP AGAINST SOME PEOPLE YOU KNOW, LIKE TOP CHEF AND LYDIA, WHO'S A PBS LEGEND, AND I THINK THEY WERE SHOCKED WHEN THEY CALLED OUR NAME, OF COURSE.

SO, YES, I THINK EVERYONE ELSE WAS TOO.

>> Cathy: CONGRATULATIONS.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: SO, SIXTH SEASON, WOW!

I REMEMBER WHEN THIS WAS KIND OF LIKE AN ONLINE-ONLY THING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Cathy: YES.

>> WE STARTED SIX YEARS AGO, IT WAS CO-CREATOR AMY MELIN AND I AND CHEF YIA VANG, AND WE STARTED IN HIS MOM'S KITCHEN, WE WERE FILMING, DOING, AUDIO, EDITING, ALL OF THAT.

SO HE TOOK A GREAT LEAP OF FAITH WITH US AS DOING EVERYTHING.

AND E STARTED WITH VERY HUMBLE BEGINNINGS.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE MISSION STATEMENT OF THE SHOW?

>> YOU KNOW, WE REALLY HOPE THAT BY SHARING THESE STORIES OF OTHER MINNESOTANS THAT PEOPLE CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEIR COMMUNITIES, IT'S SUCH A GREAT ENTRY POINT FOR US.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A WAY TO OPEN UP CURIOSITY AND GET TO KNOW MORE PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: SO IT'S NOT JUST A COOKING SHOW.

>> I MEAN, WE HOPE NOT.

WE HOPE THAT PEOPLE SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO IT.

MAYBE THEY'LL O OUT AND TRY SOME NEW PLACES.

>> Cathy: I HOPE SO.

SO, HOW DO YOU BOOK YOUR GUESTS?

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT A GOOD GUEST WOULD BE FOR RELISH?

>> THAT'S SUCH A GREAT QUESTION.

WE HAVE SUCH AN AMAZING FOOD COMMUNITY HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES.

AND IN MINNESOTA.

THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

AND WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF GREAT CHEFS.

HOME COOKS CHEFS, AND, SO, THERE'S REALLY AN ENDLESS, AN ENDLESS LIST OF PEOPLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE FIND OUT ABOUT THEM THROUGH COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THROUGH OUR OTHER STAFF MEMBERS, OUR TEAM.

AND ALSO BECAUSE OUR FOOD COMMUNITY IS SO GENEROUS, CHEFS THAT WE'VE ALREADY WORKED WITH, YOU KNOW, SAY TO US, HAVE YOU SEEN THIS PERSON?

DO YOU KNOW THIS STORY?

YOU SHOULD TALK TO THIS PERSON.

SO REALLY -- IT'S A REALLY GIVING COMMUNITY, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS THAT WAY IN EVERY CITY.

OR IN EVERY PLACE.

>> Eric: DO MINNESOTA DINERS GET THE ULTICULTURAL OR DO YOU HAVE TO THROW IN SOME NORTHERN EUROPEAN STUFF?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S CULTURAL, TOO, RIGHT?

>> Eric: SURE, OF COURSE IT IS.

>> MEAN, WE ALL HAVE STORIES.

WE TAKE THAT AS A CHALLENGE, LIKE, OKAY, WHERE HAVEN'T WE FEATURED FOOD YET AND LET'S FIND THOSE PLACES.

>> Cathy: WELL, OKAY, MISS PRODUCER, WHERE YOU HAVEN'T FEATURED FOOD?

IT'S ON THE LIST.

>> WE HAVEN'T FEATURED FOOD IN A LOT OF COUNTRIES, BUT WE HAVE TRIED TO FEATURE A LOT OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE REALLY PROMINENT IN THIS STATE.

YOU KNOW, AS YOU GUYS JUST SAW, SAMBUSAS, SOMALI SAMBUSAS.

>> Cathy: LOVE THEM.

>> WITH MIRIAM ND HER FAMILY FROM HOYA SAMBUSA.

AND THEN OTHER HMONG CHEFS BESIDES YIA AS WELL, HE DOES FRENCH FOOD, REALLY TALKING ABOUT IDENTITY IN THAT AS WELL.

SO MANY OTHER.

>> Cathy: SO GLAD YOU DID HAWAIIAN PLATE LUNCH.

>> LOVE, LOVE.

>> Cathy: SO GOOD.

>> WARREN AND JESSA AT HAWAIIAN PLATES ARE JUST FANTASTIC PEOPLE.

>> Eric: THAT TUNA LOOKED AMAZING.

HOW DID YOU GET IT?

>> PLEASE, I MEAN, CHRIS HAD THAT FLOWN IN THE NIGHT BEFORE.

NOT PUBLIC MEDIA DOLLARS.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYIN'.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYIN'.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HOW AMAZING.

AND TO LEARN ABOUT THE PLATE LUNCH TRADITION THAT CAME UP THROUGH THE PLANTATION ERA IN HAWAII.

AND THEN ALSO HAWAII REGIONAL CUISINE, WHICH CHRIS TALKED ABOUT LATER IN THE EPISODE.

>> Eric: ARMED WITH THIS, WHAT'S NEXT?

>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING READY FOR ANOTHER SEASON, WHICH IS REALLY EXCITING.

AND -- >> Cathy: SEASON 7.

>> SEASON 7.

>> Eric: THIS OPENS DOORS, DOESN'T IT?

>> I HOPE SO.

>> Eric: OR DO YOU HAVE DOORS THAT NEED OPENING?

>> I HOPE IT OPENS MORE DOORS.

I HOPE IT OPENS A BIGGER AUDIENCE TO THESE STORIES AS WELL.

A NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

BEYOND WHAT WE CAN DO ONLINE.

SO, -- >> Cathy: OH, WAIT, DID YOU SAY NATIONAL AUDIENCE, DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD BE A NATIONAL PBS SHOW?

>> I MEAN, IF THEY'RE LISTENING.

WE'LL TAKE IT.

WE'LL TAKE IT.

SO, YOU KNOW.

>> Eric: WHAT A WONDERFUL BREAK FROM WHAT WE'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH.

COME BACK AND SEE US.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Cathy: CONGRATULATIONS.

WE'RE SO PROUD.

>> Eric: THANKS.

♪♪ >> IS THIS HOW IT STARTED?

IT SEEMS LIKE JUST YESTERDAY THAT MY SON, ANDREW, AND MARY LAHAMMER'S BABY GIRL WERE CRAWLING AROUND THE TPT STUDIOS DURING "ALMANAC" REHEARSALS AND SWINGING FROM ERIC'S SCARVES.

HOW'S IT GOIN'?

THESE TWO LITTLE ONES AIN'T SO LITTLE NO MORE.

MY FIRST-BORN DROVE OFF INTO ADULTHOOD AND I FEEL LIKE I DROVE OFF A CLIFF AND HAVEN'T HIT THE BOTTOM YET.

[ ARE CRYING ] HE'S IN COLLEGE IN St.

CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY AND WORKING PART TIME AT THE LAZE BOY TO PAY FOR ALL HIS "X" BODY SPRAY.

NOW, LISTEN, I'LL PAY THE TUITION, BUT THAT BODY SPRAY CANNOT AFFORD.

NOW, WHEN I WENT TO EARLY CHILDHOOD FAMILY AND EDUCATION TEACHER, Mrs. JEAN LUND, SHE ASKED ME HOW HE WAS DOING.

I TOLD HER, SO FAR SO GOOD.

AXE BODY SPRAY.

SO WHY AM I STRESSED OUT?

I FIND MYSELF JUST ROCKIN' BACK AND FORTH, BITING ON NAILS, GETTING ACNE.

YOU ALL SEE THIS PIMPLE?

AND MY HAIR IS FALLING OUT BY THE HANDFULS.

I AM O ANXIOUS ABOUT EVERYTHING CONCERNING ANDREW.

I THOUGHT WHEN MY BOY BECAME A MAN, I WOULDN'T WORRY ANYMORE.

BUT AS SOON AS I REALIZED I COULD NO LONGER PUT HIM IN A PLAY PEN, STICK A PACIFIER IN HIS MOUTH, AND LET HIM FALL TO SLEEP WATCHING "SESAME STREET" I STOPPED GETTING ANY LEEP MYSELF.

I WENT TO RED BALLOON BOOKS, YOU KNOW, IN St. PAUL TO FIND A HELPFUL GUIDE TO HELP CALM MY NERVES.

ALL I CAN LOCATE WERE THOSE BOOKS ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN YOU'RE EXPECTING.

NOW, I HAVE A LITTLE POUCH RIGHT HERE BECAUSE I'VE BEEN EATING GOOD BUT WE ARE WAY PAST THAT POINT.

I TELL YOU WHAT, I DID NOT EXPECT TO MISS HIS DIRTY LITTLE SOCKS ON THE FLOOR OR HIS ROOM SMELLING LIKE HOT CHEETOS AND TACKIES, BUT IT'S CRAZY HOW I DO.

HMMM, I MISS MY ABY.

TAKIS.

♪♪ >> CATHY: NEW TIMBERWOLVES AND LYNX OWNERS ALEX RODRIQUEZ AND MARC LORE SAY THEY PLAN TO KEEP THE TEAMS IN MINNESOTA, BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE THEM LONG TO SAY THEY WANT A NEW ARENA.

LARRY FITZGERALD, SR., HAS COVERED THE TIMBERWOLVES FROM THE BEGINNING, THROUGH THREE OWNERS.

WHEN HE'S NOT SITTING AT THE TABLE WITH US HERE IN STUDIO B, FITZY DOES RADIO WORK FOR THE NATIONAL PROGRAMMING NETWORK.

I REMEMBER TALKING O MARC LORE, INTERESTING GUY, SO THEY'RE GOING TO STAY IN THE STATE, WE THINK.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE TARGET CENTER?

I THOUGHT IT WAS FINE.

>> WELL, THEY SPENT MILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS TO RENOVATE IT AND TO, I THINK, IMPROVE IT.

THEY MOVED THE ENTRANCE FROM THE MIDDLE OF FIRST AVENUE ALL THE WAY TO SIXTH STREET AND PUT AN ESCALATOR IN THERE AND EVERYTHING SEEMED TO BE WORKING JUST FINE, PLUS THEY TOOK CARE OF A LOT OF SUITES.

I THINK IT'S A VERY COMFORTABLE AND A VERY ENTERTAINING ARENA TO WATCH BASKETBALL, THE TIMBERWOLVES HAVE BEEN VERY GOOD, AS WE KNOW, THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

AND THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE ALMOST 19,000 PEOPLE.

BUT THIS NEW OWNERSHIP THING, WHICH HAS BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR FOUR YEARS, YOU KNOW, GLEN TAYLOR HAD THEM ON A PAY SCHEDULE, AND THEY GOT OFF OF IT.

AND THEN DURING THAT TIME, THE VALUE OF THE FRANCHISE INCREASED.

IT'S REALLY WORTH ALMOST $3 BILLION.

AND THEY PAID, YOU KNOW, THEY WROTE A CHECK FOR $1.5.

>> Eric: THEY GOT A BARGAIN.

>> THEY DID.

AND I THINK GLEN SAW THAT COMING.

AND THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUES CAME INTO PLAY WITH THE SALE AND EVENTUALLY THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS, ALL 30 OF THEM, SAID, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO LET GLEN SELL IT TO LORE AND RODRÍGUEZ AND NOW THEY HAVE IT.

AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER THEY DECIDE TO DO IN TERMS OF, YOU SAID ARENA, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, THIS TIMBERWOLVES FRANCHISE, OF ALL THE TEAMS IN TOWN, THEY'VE GONE THROUGH MORE CONTROVERSY THAN ANY OTHER TEAM.

I MEAN, REMEMBER, THEY WERE SOLD OUT BY MARVIN HARV, THEY SOLD THEM TO NEW ORLEANS.

>> Cathy: OH, THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND IT TOOK, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSIONER AT THE TIME TO STEP IN AND STOP THAT SALE.

AND EVENTUALLY OPEN THE DOOR FOR GLEN TAYLOR GETTING IT IN 1994.

AND, YOU KNOW, HE'S DONE A GOOD JOB, HE'S MADE SOME MISTAKES, HE'S BEEN SUSPENDED, YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

JOE SMITH.

>> Eric: YEAH.

A LITANY OF STUFF.

>> YEAH, YEAH, BUT NOW THEY'RE IN THE HANDS OF RODRÍGUEZ AND LORE.

>> Eric: NOW, WE BETTER PAY A LITTLE TRIBUTE TO THE LYNX.

THEY ARE PLAYIN' WELL.

>> THEY ARE, THEY ARE.

AND THEY'RE PLAYIN' IN ATLANTA TONIGHT.

AND HOPEFULLY THEY'LL GET SUPER STAR NAPHEESA COLLIER BACK, SHE'S MISSED THE LAST TWO GAMES, SHE'S GOT A BULGING DISC THAT'S GIVING HER SOME ISSUES.

APPARENTLY THAT WAS THE CASE COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

BUT SHE'S GOING TO PLAY TONIGHT.

AND THEY NEED HER BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR LAST GAME THAT SHE DIDN'T PLAY IN.

>> Cathy: WELL, THE TWINS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

I WAS KIND OF EXCITED THERE, WAS IT EARLY JUNE, THEY LOOKED OKAY.

>> Eric: 13-GAME WINNING STREAK.

>> Cathy: WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, 13-GAME WINNING STREAK, I BELIEVE I MENTIONED GOING INTO THE SEASON, I THOUGHT THEY HAD SOME PROBLEMS AND WE SEE THOSE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTED BY THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T PITCH, I MEAN, THERE WAS A STRETCH WHERE THEY WENT 18 GAMES AND GAVE UP 140 RUNS.

I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT NO CHANCE TO WIN.

>> Eric: NO.

>> AND, SO, FORTUNATELY, THEY WERE ABLE TO STEAL A COUPLE GAMES FROM SEATTLE.

THEY MADE THEM PLAY -- MAKE THEM WAIT FOUR HOURS AND 30 MINUTES, CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?

TO PLAY A BASEBALL GAME?

>> Cathy: NO.

>> THEY WOULDN'T LET SEATTLE LEAVE AND SEATTLE THREW A FLAG IN AND THE TWINS WON 10-1 YESTERDAY.

BUT NOW THEY GO TO DETROIT.

SO ARE THE TWINS IN THE RACE?

WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT BECAUSE THE TWINS WILL BE ON NATIONAL TV UNDAY NIGHT BASEBALL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FIVE YEARS.

>> Cathy: WOW!

>> SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE PLAYING DETROIT.

>> Eric: TEN SECONDS LEFT.

VIKINGS TOTAL INS, EIGHT AND A HALF IN VEGAS, OVER/UNDER.

THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THEY'RE IN A TOUGH DIVISION.

DETROIT'S STILL GOOD.

THEY SCORED MORE POINTS THAN ANY TEAM IN FOOTBALL AST YEAR.

I THINK THE VIKINGS ARE GOING TO BE IN THE CHASE, HEY'RE BUILT DIFFERENT, STRONGER, PHYSICALLY ON DEFENSE.

WITH MORE SPEED.

>> Eric: TO BE CONTINUED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>> Eric: THANKS, MAN.

♪♪ >> YOUNGER GENERATIONS COMING UP THE RANKS, TURNING INTO VOTERS, HAVING A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ON THIS ISSUE, I ALSO THINK THAT FOR PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC, IT IS MUCH MORE COMMON NOW, YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE A GAY COUPLE WITH KIDS, YOUR CHILD'S NANNY IS A LESBIAN, YOUR COLLEAGUE AT WORK WITH WHOM YOU'RE NOW VERY CLOSE IS A GAY MAN.

IT IS JUST MUCH MORE IN THE OPEN.

WE TALK ABOUT IT MORE OPENLY.

IT'S IN THE PRESS MORE OPENLY.

IT'S IN THE MEDIA MORE OPENLY.

AND, OF COURSE, THERE HAVE BEEN AROUND THE COUNTRY, THESE LEGISLATIVE AND BALLOT INITIATIVES AND COURT CASES THAT HAVE ALSO GREATLY CONTRIBUTED TO HEIGHTENING AWARENESS ABOUT THE ISSUE.

>> Cathy: THERE'S A 5-4 DECISION, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN HAPPY IF IT WAS 6-3?

IS THERE STILL WORK TO BE DONE?

WHAT DOES THAT 5-4 TELL YOU?

>> I WOULD JUST SAY, I'M GENERALLY HAPPY, I'M THRILLED WITH THE OUTCOME.

I THINK TODAY IS A DAY OF JOY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND A DAY OF RELIEF, FRANKLY, FOR COUPLES WHOSE MARRIAGES WERE RECOGNIZED IN CERTAIN STATES BUT NOT IN OTHERS.

♪♪ >> CATHY: AS YOU JUST SAW, THIS WEEK MARKED TEN YEARS SINCE THE LANDMARK DECISION FROM THE SUPREME COURT ON GAY MARRIAGE.

MEMBERS OF THE TWO SPIRIT LGBTQIA+ COMMUNITY HAVE ARGUABLY NEVER BEEN MORE VISIBLE, LIKE AT OUR STATE CAPITOL, BUT THERE'S STILL WORK AND WORRY AHEAD.

JOINING US IN THE LAST REMAINING DAYS OF PRIDE MONTH IS DFL REPRESENTATIVE ATHENA HOLLINS OF THE MINNESOTA QUEER LEGISLATORS CAUCUS.

SHE ALSO REPRESENTS St. PAUL.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

SAY, BEFORE WE BEGIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY, I KNOW IT'S BEEN VERY VERY DIFFICULT, LOSING SPEAKER HORTMAN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: WHAT KIND OF AN ALLY WAS SHE?

>> OH, MY GOSH.

SHE WAS A TREMENDOUS ALLY.

I MEAN, THROUGH AND THROUGH, THE NUMBER OF TIMES I CAN SAY THAT WE TOLD HER, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION TO THE QUEER CAUCUS, SHE ABSOLUTELY LISTENED AND SHE SAID, THEN IT'S A PRIORITY FOR ME.

>> Cathy: AND, AGAIN, SO SORRY.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW, SURVIVING.

IT'S HARD.

IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE.

AND I'M JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, AS I KEEP TELLING MY CAUCUS, WE'RE GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

>> Cathy: RIGHT.

>> Eric: YOUR CAUCUS WAS KIND OF ON OFFENSE IN '23 AND '24, AND THE LAST SESSION, PLAYING MORE DEFENSE, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S ACCURATE.

I THINK WE HAD TREMENDOUS GAINS IN '23 AND '24 FROM UR PERSPECTIVE.

AND, REALLY, WE WENT INTO '25 JUST TRYING TO HOLD ON TO THOSE.

>> Cathy: WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING IN THE COMING SESSIONS HERE?

I MEAN, HOW HARD MIGHT IT BE?

DO YOU LOOK AS THIS AS A UPHILL CLIMB, PERHAPS?

>> WELL, FOR THE NEXT SESSION COMING UP IN '26, I THINK THAT'S -- IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR EVERYBODY.

RIGHT?

JUST BECAUSE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

PEOPLE ARE HURTING AND PEOPLE ARE SCARED AND, SO, THE REALITY OF IT IS GOING TO BE CHALLENGING FOR ALL OF US.

BUT I'M REALLY HOPEFUL, I MEAN, I THINK WE GOT SOME REALLY GOOD THINGS DONE THIS PAST YEAR THAT WERE BIPARTISAN IN NATURE, EXAMINE, SO, I'M REALLY HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN COME BACK AND, YOU KNOW, DO THAT SAME GOOD WORK FOR THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA AND HOPEFULLY GET IN AND OUT AND GET IT DONE.

>> Cathy: I WONDER ABOUT PRIDE, YOU KNOW, WHY IS HAVING PRIDE MONTH STILL IMPORTANT?

>> OH, GREAT QUESTION.

I MEAN, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE SEEING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL IS THE REASON WHY IT'S TILL IMPORTANT.

WE'VE MADE HUGE STRIDES, BUT THE REALITY IS, THERE'S O MUCH FURTHER TO GO.

AND MANY PEOPLE JUST WANT TO LOVE WHO THEY LOVE, THEY WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES FULLY AND AUTHENTICALLY, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> Eric: ONE OF THE MOST VISIBLE ISSUES NOW IS THE FEDERAL HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATING WHETHER BIOLOGICAL MALES CAN PLAY GIRLS' SPORTS.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE STATUS OF THAT IN THE COMMUNITY?

>> I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE OUTRAGED.

I THINK, IN GENERAL, THE IDEA THAT WE ARE GOING TO START PICKING APART WHAT PEOPLE'S GENDER IS IS JUST BIOLOGICALLY INCORRECT, RIGHT?

WE KNOW THERE'S MORE THAN TWO GENDERS, IN ANY PARTICULAR SITUATION.

TRANS GIRLS ARE GIRLS AND THEY WANT TO PLAY SPORTS.

WITH OTHER GIRLS, WITH OTHER LITTLE GIRLS.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

AND I THINK MOST MINNESOTANS SEE THIS AS REALLY A NONISSUE THAT'S DISTRACTING FROM THE REAL THINGS THAT PEOPLE CARE ABOUT, LIKE HOW MUCH THEIR GROCERIES, HOW MUCH THEY'RE PAYING FOR RENT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, WHEN SAME-SEX MARRIAGE PASSED THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IN 2013, I THINK PEOPLE -- IT WAS A MASTER CLASS IN GETTING SOMETHING DONE, RIGHT?

>> YES!

>> Cathy: BECAUSE THOSE WHO WERE IN FAVOR, IT WAS PERSONAL.

AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, LOOK AROUND YOU, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A FRIEND, YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, A NEIGHBOR, A FAMILY MEMBER, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: AND I'M WONDERING, AS YOU MOVE FORWARD IN THE QUEER CAUCUS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAYBE PERSONALIZE YOUR STORIES WITH OTHER MEMBERS IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU NEED TO GET DONE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REMEMBER HEARING IN 2013 WAS GRANDPARENTS WHO REALIZED THAT THEY HAD, OU KNOW, A AY OR LESBIAN GRANDCHILD, AND THEY WERE, LIKE, WELL, I DO WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO MARRY THE PERSON THEY LOVE.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME, PERSONALLY.

SO WE HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING WITH ALL OF OUR QUEER EQUITY RIGHTS, I THINK.

WE ARE SO BLESSED TO HAVE MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO ARE NONBINARY IN THE MINNESOTA HOUSE NOW AND ALSO OUR FIRST TRANS LEGISLATOR, LEIGH FINCKE, WHICH I THINK IS A -- GOES A TREMENDOUS WAY TO MOVING PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU GET TO KNOW THESE FOLKS AT HUMAN BEINGS AND UNDERSTAND THEIR PASSIONS AND THEIR INTERESTS AND WHO THEY ARE AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT REALLY HUMANIZES THE SORT OF ISSUE AND MAKES IT MORE PALATABLE FOR PEOPLE BECAUSE JUST LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, IN 2013, WHEN FOLKS REALIZE THAT YOU JUST WANT TO LOVE WHO YOU LOVE, THAT'S EASY TO UNDERSTAND, RIGHT?

IT WOULD BE HARD IF YOU TOLD ME, I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BE WITH WHOEVER I WANT TO BE WITH OR THAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE WITH WHO YOU WANT TO BE WITH, AND WHEN YOU SEE THAT BEING PLAYED OUT, IN A LARGER SCALE, IN A MORE DIVERSE WAY, I THINK MOST PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS ISN'T HARMING ANYBODY.

RIGHT?

THE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE DIDN'T FALL APART AFTER WE LEGALIZED SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

AND THE SAME THING IS GOING TO BE TRUE FOR TRANS RIGHTS.

NOTHING IS GOING TO FALL APART.

WE'RE GOING TO BE FINE.

>> Cathy: GLAD YOU WERE HERE.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>> Cathy: THANKS, WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: THANKS.

>> THANKS.

>> CATHY: THE WORLD OF POLITICAL JOURNALISM LOST TWO GIANTS THIS WEEK.

ONE BASED IN MINNESOTA AND ONE WITH DEEP TIES TO OUR STATE.

WE'RE GOING TO PLAY SOME CLIPS FROM OUR ARCHIVES OF BOTH.

LEGENDARY ST. PAUL PIONEER PRESS POLITICAL REPORTER BILL SALISBURY DIED MONDAY NIGHT AT THE AGE OF 80.

HE WAS THE LONGTIME DEAN OF THE CAPITOL PRESS CORPS, COVERED EIGHT GOVERNORS AND SPENT TIME COVERING NATIONAL POLITICS AS WELL.

ONE YEAR AFTER SENATOR WELLSTONE DIED IN A PLANE CRASH, SALISBURY JOINED A GROUP OF REPORTERS REFLECTING ON WELLSTONE'S TIME IN D.C.

HERE'S A PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.

>> HE WAS MIFFED AT US BECAUSE WE DIDN'T TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY.

AND WE THOUGHT HE WAS KIND OF GOOFY.

>> IN 1982, WHEN HE RAN FOR AUDITOR, RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HIM?

>> IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO BE CONVINCED THAT HE COULD DO ANYTHING.

I STARTED FOLLOWING HIS FIRST CAMPAIGN IN 1989, AND MOST OF THE DFL ESTABLISHMENT DIDN'T TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY.

THEY THOUGHT HE WAS KIND OF A LIBERAL FLAKE.

AND IN SOME RESPECTS, HE WAS.

BUT HE WAS -- HE HAD A CHARM AND A CHARISMA ABOUT HIM THAT YOU COULD SENSE THAT REALLY CONNECTED WITH PEOPLE.

AND PARTICULARLY WITH THE LIBERAL WING OF THE PARTY.

AND HE JUST ENERGIZED, HIS PASSION WAS KIND OF CONTAGIOUS SO YOU COULD KIND OF SEE THAT.

AND AFTER HE GOT ELECTED, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK HIM A LONG TIME TO FIGURE OUT HIS ROLE.

HE GOT A TERRIBLE START IN THE SENATE WHEN HE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 1990.

DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO OPERATE THERE.

BY THE TIME I GOT TO WASHINGTON, IN 1994, HE'D BEEN BEATEN DOWN BY HIS COLLEAGUES AND HE'S A SMART GUY, HE REALIZED THAT HE HAD TO CHANGE THE WAY HE APPROACHED THINGS.

BY THE TIME I GOT THERE, I WAS SURPRISED BY HOW MUCH, IF THEY DIDN'T RESPECT HIM, THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS WHO ERE IN CHARGE AT THAT TIME, LIKED THE GUY, THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A LIBERAL NUT, UT THEY LIKED THE GUY PERSONALLY.

HE WAS A FRIENDLY GUY, AND YOU COULD TRUST HIM.

♪♪ >> ERIC: ON THURSDAY, PUBLIC TELEVISION BROADCAST JOURNALIST BILL MOYERS DIED AT THE AGE OF 91.

HIS LONG CAREER AS A PUBLIC MEDIA CORRESPONDENT AND COMMENTATOR INCLUDED THE ACCLAIMED FIVE-PART SERIES "CLOSE TO HOME."

THE SERIES EXAMINED THE COMPLEX ISSUE OF ADDICTION.

THE TITLE SUGGESTS THAT MOST PEOPLE'S LIVES HAVE BEEN TOUCHED IN SOME WAY BY ADDICTION.

INCLUDING MOYERS' OWN FAMILY.

HIS SON, WILLIAM COPE MOYERS, WENT THROUGH TREATMENT AT HAZELDEN HERE IN MINNESOTA, STAYED ON TO WORK FOR HAZELDEN AND THE HAZELDEN BETTY FORD FOUNDATION.

HERE'S PART OF A CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO OF THEM ON NEWSNIGHT MINNESOTA BACK IN 1998 WHEN "CLOSE TO HOME" PREMIERED.

>> HOW DISAPPOINTED WERE YOU OR SHOCKED OR BAFFLED WHEN YOU FOUND OUT?

>> GOOD VERBS.

I WAS TERRIFIED AT FIRST.

I WAS AFRAID WE WOULDN'T GET HIM BACK.

I WAS AFRAID HE'D DISAPPEARED DOWN SOME DEEP -- WELL, I MEAN, WE KNEW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCES THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE ADDICTED HAD A VERY DIFFICULT TIME OVERCOMING THIS TENACIOUS DISEASE.

LOST MY GRANDFATHER, IN NO SMALL PART, BECAUSE, AS WE SAID IN THOSE TERMS, A DRUNK, AN ALCOHOLIC, ACK IN 1939.

I KNEW TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO NEVER FOUND THEIR WAY BACK TO SHORE.

TO TAKE THIS AS BLASE.

I WAS SCARED, SCARED TO DEATH THAT WE WOULDN'T GET HIM BACK.

WHEN HE DID COME BACK AND WENT INTO DETOX, I WAS GREATLY RELIEVED.

AND THEN WHEN HE CAME TO HAZELDEN, I FELT EVEN GREATER RELIEF BECAUSE, I SAID, HE'LL BE OKAY NOW, YOU KNOW, HE'S ON THE RESERVATION.

>> BUT IT'S NOT THAT EASY.

>> NO, IT ISN'T.

THIS IS THE MOST TENACIOUS DISEASE.

♪♪ >> ERIC: SPEAKER EMERITA MELISSA HORTMAN'S FAMILY WILL HAVE A PRIVATE FUNERAL THIS WEEKEND.

TODAY IT WAS THE PUBLIC'S OPPORTUNITY TO COME TO THE CAPITOL TO HONOR HORTMAN AND HER HUSBAND.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER TALKED WITH FRIENDS AND STRANGERS ABOUT WHY THEY CAME TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS.

>> Mary: THE FIRST WOMAN TO LIE IN STATE IS FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER MELISSA HORTMAN, ALONGSIDE HER HUSBAND, MARK, AND BELOVED DOG, GILBERT.

HUNDREDS, THEN THOUSANDS OF MINNESOTANS MADE THEIR WAY TO THE STATE CAPITOL TO HONOR THE TRIO GUNNED DOWN BY A POLITICAL SASSIN THAT STILL HAS -- AS SASSIN THAT STILL HAS SO MANY IN DISBELIEF.

>> AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING, TO REACT IN SOME WAY.

SUCH A STUNNING INCONCEIVABLE THING TO HAPPEN.

AND YOU NEED A WAY TO REACT TO IT.

>> BELIEVING THAT GOVERNANCE AND WORKING WITH OTHERS AND THAT MINNESOTA MODEL OF, WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT TOGETHER, AND I'M DEEPLY MOVED AND AFFIRMED THAT NOT ONLY IS MELISSA HORTMAN LYING IN STATE BECAUSE APPROXIMATE, AS MY MOM SAID, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING, I APPRECIATE ACKNOWLEDGING HER HUSBAND'S SACRIFICE AND EVEN THEIR DOG.

PUBLIC SERVICE IS SOMETHING WE'RE PROUD OF.

WE STILL ARE PROUD OF IT.

WE STILL DO IT RIGHT.

>> Mary: YOU KNEW MELISSA HORTMAN?

>> YEAH, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME WORKING ON BILLS TWO YEARS AGO, DURING THE TRIFECTA.

I WOULD OFTEN HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON, BECAUSE I WAS BOLD ENOUGH TO TEXT MELISSA AND ASK.

>> ON THE BACK OF MY SHIRT, IT HAS ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WERE PASSED UNDER THE TRIFECTA.

AND IT'S REALLY WEIRD TO THINK THAT THE TWO AUCUS LEADERS ARE NOT THERE ANYMORE.

>> Mary: AND THIS WAS HER PHRASE FOR PEOPLE HO MAY NOT KNOW, THIS IS HOW SHE STARTED SESSION, LFG, IT STANDS FOR SOMETHING.

>> YES, LET'S FREAKIN' GO, WE'RE GOING TO FEED THE KIDS, WE'RE GOING TO FUND EDUCATION, WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

>> Mary: THIS IS NOT EASY.

>> NO, IT'S NOT EASY.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.

I LOVE THAT GILBERT IS ALSO LYING IN STATE.

THIS ALSO DID A OT TO SCARE PEOPLE.

>> Mary: ARE YOU CARED?

>> NOT REALLY.

I KEEP THINKING OF, LIKE, WHAT MELISSA WOULD PROBABLY THINK, WHICH IS, OBVIOUSLY, PROTECT YOUR FAMILY.

BUT ALSO, LIKE, WE STILL NEED PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED.

>> Mary: THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS PEOPLE CAME TO THE MINNESOTA STATE CAPITOL TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS, TO FORMER SPEAKER MELISSA HORTMAN, WHO BECAME THE LONGEST-SERVING FEMALE SPEAKER IN STATE HISTORY.

>> MY NEIGHBOR, LINDA, INVITED ME O JOIN, REALLY JUST STRUCK BY THE WHOLE SITUATION AND VERY SADDENED THAT THIS HORRIBLE TRAGEDY OCCURRED.

>> Mary: YOU DIDN'T KNOW HER.

YOU SHOWED UP.

>> YES, I GREW UP IN BROOKLYN PARK, I GREW UP IN CHAMPLIN.

I LOOK AT HER, I JUST SEE MYSELF, I SEE MY SISTERS, SEE MY FRIENDS.

MINNESOTA POLITICS, YEAH, IT HAS CHANGED.

I'M SHOCKED.

>> I WANTED TO HONOR THE WORK AND LIFE OF MELISSA HORTMAN AND HER HUSBAND.

AND IT'S KIND OF ONE WAY TO MAKE A STATEMENT AGAINST POLITICAL VIOLENCE, NOT ONLY JUST HERE IN MINNESOTA BUT THROUGHOUT OUR NATION.

AND WE NEED LEADERS TO STEP UP TO HELP THAT HAPPEN.

SO THAT'S BASICALLY WHY I'M HERE TODAY.

>> Mary: ARE YOU WORRIED PEOPLE WON'T STEP UP AND WILL BE AFRAID TO GO INTO POLITICS NOW?

>> THERE'S NO REAL REASON TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

I THINK WE JUST DO WHAT WE CAN DO ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND ELECT LEADERS THAT FEEL THE SAME WAY WITH RESPECT TO POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

BUT I THINK MELISSA WOULD GIVE US HOPE IN THAT DIRECTION.

SHE SEEMED TO WANT TO WORK WITH LL PEOPLE.

>> I'VE WORKED FOR THE JEWISH SPECIAL, LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE INTERACTED WITH HER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID SHE WAS THE BEST OF US.

I'VE BEEN HERE, LIKE YOU, A LONG TIME, AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'VE WORKED WITH, WHO HAVE BEEN ELECTED IN OFFICE, ARE NO LONGER IN ELECTED OFFICE, SHE'S ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO PREDATE, LIKE, THE TIME I'VE BEEN AT THE CAPITOL.

I JUST CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE, LIKE, THIS PLACE WITHOUT HER.

>> AND TODAY'S MORE THAN JUST MELISSA, TOO, THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE EXPRESSING GRATITUDE TO BE ABLE TO REMEMBER MARK AND GILBERT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?

>> I'M GLAD THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT MARK.

HE DID COME WITH MELISSA ON A TRIP THAT I ORGANIZED BACK IN 2019 TO ISRAEL.

HE WAS FUN.

AND THE THING I REMEMBER ABOUT HIM IS HOW MUCH HE LOVED HER.

HOW MUCH HE ADMIRED HER.

HE WAS JUST IN AWE OF HER.

I MEAN, WEREN'T WE ALL?

♪♪ >> ERIC: THE TIME HAS COME FOR THIS WEEK'S VERSION OF THE POLITICAL PANEL.

DEMOCRATS UP FIRST.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW A LEGISLATIVE LOBBYIST.

ALYSEN NESSE IS A LONGTIME LOBBYIST AND DFL ACTIVIST.

REPUBLICANS ON THE COUCH TONIGHT, FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW PRACTICING ATTORNEY, FRITZ KNAAK.

AND WE ROUND OUT THE GROUP TONIGHT WITH A CURRENT MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE, REPRESENATIVE WALTER HUDSON HAILS FROM ALBERTVILLE.

SENATOR HAYDEN, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE BIPARTISAN OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT THAT EVIDENCED ITSELF TODAY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I WAS REALLY GLAD TO SEE THAT.

I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO GET BACK TO.

I THINK WE HAD STARTED TO KIND OF CLEARLY ALLOW THE FRINGES OF OUR PARTIES KIND OF TAKE OVER, AND I'M REALLY HOPING THAT THIS -- IF THERE'S ANYTHING OUT OF THIS THAT IT STARTS TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND THEY REALLY START TO MEASURE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN STILL REPRESENT YOUR INTERESTS, BUT REALLY MEASURE KIND F HOW YOU SAY IT.

>> Eric: IS THIS A BUILDING BLOCK FOR SOMETHING BIGGER GOING DOWN THE LINE OR IS IT, YOU KNOW, A FEW MONTHS WILL PASS, AND SAME SOLD, AIM OLD?

>> I THINK THOSE OF US WHO ARE MOST DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY IT, THOSE OF US AT THE CAPITOL, LEGISLATORS, STAFF, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO GO AWAY ANY TIME SOON.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A DEFINITIVE MOMENT THAT RESHAPES HOW PEOPLE THINK.

I WAS TALKING WITH REPRESENTATIVE HOLLINS IN THE GREEN ROOM ABOUT THE UNIQUE EXPERIENCE THAT THE FIRST-YEAR CLASS, THE FOLKS WHO WERE ELECTED JUST LAST YEAR, THE UNIQUENESS AS OF THIS EXPERIENCE OF NOT JUST SERVING IN THIS HISTORIC TIE, BUT THEN THIS TRAGEDY TAKING PLACE AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE INTERIM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE A DEFINITIVE FORMATIVE EXPERIENCE GOING FORWARD.

[ SAME OLD SAME OLD ] >> Cathy: IT WAS NICE TO SEE NOT ONLY CURRENT AWMAKERS BUT FORMER LAWMAKERS THERE AS WELL.

IT WAS LIKE -- ALMOST LIKE A REUNION.

IT WAS INTERESTING TO WATCH.

>> WELL, IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, IT ISN'T AS THOUGH THE WHOLE INSTITUTION HAS FALLEN APART, QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

WHAT WAS NICE ABOUT THIS, IN A WAY, IF YOU COULD SAY IT WAS NICE, WAS THAT IT WAS A REMINDER JUST HOW DEEP THE INSTITUTION IS.

HOW MUCH IT'S RESPECTED BY MINNESOTANS.

NOT JUST THE PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE IN IT, YOU KNOW, IN THE POLITICS OF IT, THE POLITICS OF IT HAVE COME AND GONE FOR 100 SOME ODD YEARS NOW.

THE INSTITUTION, YOU NOW, OF THE LEGISLATURE, OVERALL, HAS STAYED STEADY.

AND IS STRONGLY SUPPORTED.

THERE ISN'T ANYBODY SUGGESTING REPLACING THAT.

BUT IT WAS GOOD THAT EVERYBODY HAD THIS REMINDER, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A HORRIBLE WAY TO BE REMINDED.

>> Eric: IT'S A SMALL TOWN, THE STATE CAPITOL, AND THE RELATIONSHIPS ARE IMPORTANT IN A SMALL TOWN, AND WE'VE SEEN SOME OF THAT REFLECTED, THINK.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S A SMALL TOWN, IT'S TRULY A FAMILY, SOMETIMES A DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY, AND THERE'S SOMETIMES A CRAZY UNCLE OR AUNT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE A FAMILY, WE'RE ALL MINNESOTANS, AND IT REALLY FELT THAT WAY TODAY AND THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS.

>> Cathy: I THOUGHT SENATOR JULIA COLEMAN HAD AN INTERESTING TWEET TODAY.

PART OF IT, IT WAS A LONG ONE, I PULLED THIS OUT OF HER TWEET, THIS IS NOT ABOUT VOTES OR POWER, WE'RE HONORING A LIFE OF SERVICE.

YOU KNOW.

BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THERE ARE SOME FOLKS WHO HAVE WEIGHED IN ON THIS AND THEIR RHETORIC N THIS HAS NOT BEEN GREAT, OBVIOUSLY.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF WHAT SENATOR OLEMAN SAID?

>> WELL, I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT.

I WASN'T SURPRISED.

SHE SERVES AS KIND OF A MODERATE VOICE.

I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO SAY THAT, BEGINNING ON THE SITUATION.

BUT IN TERMS OF -- NOT IN TERMS OF HER IDEOLOGY, BUT IN TERMS OF HOW SHE APPROACHES THE WORK.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO REALLY THINK ABOUT.

OUR WORDS, WE'RE LEADERS, AND OUR WORDS MEAN SOMETHING TO PEOPLE AND WE'RE KIND OF AT THE TOP OF THAT FOOD CHAIP AND IF -- CHAIN, AND IF E'RE NOT BEHAVING WELL, THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, SOCIETY FEELS LIKE IT CAN.

>> Cathy: THE DEHUMANIZATION OF A POLITICAL OPPONENT ON BOTH SIDE, BECAUSE BOTH SIDES DO THIS, HOW DO YOU -- HOW DO YOU GET BACK FROM THAT?

HOW DO YOU REPAIR?

BECAUSE IT'S SO EASY TO DEHUMANIZE YOUR POLITICAL OPPONENTS, NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING.

GIVE NO QUARTER, YOU KNOW, KEEP FIGHTING.

AGAIN, THE RHETORIC IS SO SHARP.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW WE COME BACK FROM THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THERE IS PERSISTENT PRESSURE AMONGST THE ACTIVISTS ON BOTH SIDES TO GIVE NO QUARTER, TO SHOW NO GRACE.

TO BE A FIGHTER, RIGHT?

AND WHAT I THINK HAPPENS IS THAT PEOPLE MISTAKE OR CONFUSE CONVICTION WITH VITRIOL AND ASSUME THAT YOU DON'T HAVE CONVICTION UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO EXPRESS VITRIOL.

THE OTHER THING THAT FACTORS INTO THIS IS JUST THE BREADTH OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM TODAY VERSUS THE WAY IT WAS IN, SAY, THE 1960s, WHERE SOMEBODY LIKE JFK AND NIXON WERE CLOSER TOGETHER IN TERMS OF WHAT IT IS THAT THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

THE IDEALOGICAL SPECTRUM HAS BECOME SO BROAD THAT FOLKS ON EITHER ND TRULY CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE OTHER PERSON BELIEVES WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND THAT FOSTERS DEHUMANIZATION.

>> Cathy: YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING.

>> YEAH, I ACTUALLY WANTED TO BRING UP SPEAKER HORTMAN, WHICH WAS JUST A BRILLIANT ELECTION STRATEGIST, BUT ELECTION STRATEGIST, AND HE REALLY WANTED TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE OTHER END OF THE OTHER SIDE, TO CREATE A VISION, TO CREATE ACTUAL POLICIES AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE COULD VOTE FOR, NOT JUST AGAINST.

>> THESE KINDS OF DIVISIONS, THOUGH, IN POLITICS, IN MINNESOTA, HISTORICALLY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE.

YOU'VE HAD JUST REAL INTENSE KINDS OF DIVISIVENESS GOING BACK WELL INTO THE 1800s.

YET, SOMEHOW, AGAIN, INSTITUTIONALLY IT ATTERED AND SOMETIMES WE GOT OVER IT JUST BECAUSE THE ELECTORATE WAS SICK AND TIRED OF IT.

AT SOME POINT, IT HAPPENS THAT THE ELECTORATE WANTS TO HEAR A MESSAGE PRESENTED SOMEWHAT DIFFERENTLY.

THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN THE PERSON THAT'S OUT THERE ON TOP OF THE SOAP BOX SCREAMING AND YELLING.

THEY WANT SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIVE.

>> Cathy: BUT WHAT'S DIFFERENT, DON'T YOU THINK, SOCIAL MEDIA.

I MEAN, IT'S SO EASY, RIGHT, TO PILLARY YOUR OPPONENTS ON SOCIAL MEDIA?

>> YEAH, AND IT'S IMPULSIVE.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, YOU WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW TO BE ABLE TO GO AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION OR TO GET ON THE FLOOR, BUT IF YOU CAN JUST DO IT RIGHT IN YOUR BEDROOM, IF YOU WILL, OR SET UP A WHOLE PRODUCTION STUDIO IN YOUR SPARE BEDROOM, I THINK THAT THAT'S THE ISSUE.

>> Eric: THERE WAS FORCED BIPARTISANSHIP IN THE MOST RECENT SESSION.

67-67 IN THE HOUSE.

AND YOU SERVED WHEN THERE WASN'T A 67-67.

AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD TELL US THE DIFFERENCES, IF THERE WERE ANY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'LL TELL YOU THIS, IT WAS MUCH EASIER BEING IN THE MINORITY UNDER A TRIFECTA BECAUSE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS COMPLAIN AND BE RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

>> WHEN YOU ACTUALLY SHARE POSSIBILITY -- RESPONSIBILITY IN A DIVIDED HOUSE AND YOU HAVE TO GOVERN, IT CHANGES THE DYNAMIC QUITE A BIT.

AND I CERTAINLY FOUND MYSELF SPEAKING SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THIS YEAR THAN I DID MY FIRST TWO YEARS.

>> Eric: BECAUSE YOU HAD MORE INPUT ON THE FRONT END, THAT THE IDEA?

>> WELL, THAT, AND ALSO JUST THE KNOWLEDGE THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, AT THE END OF THE SESSION, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME TOGETHER AND BURY A HATCHET AND COME UP WITH A BUDGET THAT THE STATE CAN LIVE WITH.

>> Eric: I'M ALWAYS INTRIGUED ON THE END OF SESSION, WHEN THE RETIREES GIVE THEIR SPEECH.

AND INVARIABLY, THEIR PROUDEST MOMENT IS WORKING WITH SOMEONE ACROSS THE AISLE ON SOME BIG BILL.

YET, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO GET TRANSLATED INTO THE FABRIC OF THE PLACE GOING FORWARD.

>> WELL, AGAIN, I GET BACK TO THIS, BUT THE INSTITUTION ITSELF IS SOMETHING YOU FEEL.

YOU KNOW?

AND SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS FROM BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN I WAS SERVING, YOU KNOW, WERE DEMOCRATS.

AND NOSE TO NOSE, WE HAD SOME NASTY NASTY NASTY DEBATES AND DISAGREEMENTS, BUT ULTIMATELY, YOU SHARE THIS COMMON EXPERIENCE SERVING IN THIS INCREDIBLE INSTITUTION THAT IS THE LEGISLATURE.

AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS AN UNFORTUNATE TIME TO BE REMINDED OF THAT, BUT IT'S A VERY STRONG INSTITUTION.

AND IT WILL SURVIVE THIS.

BUT IT WILL ALSO PROBABLY BE STRONGER WITH PEOPLE REALIZING JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS.

>> Eric: PRESIDENT BIDEN IN TOWN.

WENT TO VISIT THE HOFFMANS.

>> YEAH, I SAW THAT PICTURE.

>> Eric: THE PICTURE WAS AMAZING.

>> VERY NEAT PICTURE, YES.

>> HE ALSO CAME TO THE CAPITOL.

>> Eric: YEAH, HE CAME TO THE CAPITOL AS WELL.

I MEAN, IT'S VERY INTRIGUING.

>> SPIRIT OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, I'LL JUST NOD, SAY, GLAD HE CAME.

>> YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.

IT SOUNDS LIKE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WILL BE AT THE SERVICES TOMORROW AS WELL.

SO I DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE LIST, BUT -- BECAUSE IT'S VERY VERY TIGHT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE HEARING IN THE MEDIA CIRCLE.

SO I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY THAT'S A SIGN.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERINGINGS -- I'M WONDERING, HERE, MOVING FORWARD, WHETHER YOU THINK IT WILL BE HARDER TO RECRUIT CANDIDATES?

>> YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY HAD A GREAT CONVERSATION WITH A CURRENT HOUSE MEMBER TODAY AT THE MEMORIAL.

WHO SAID THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN RECRUITING GOOD PUBLIC SERVANTS LIKE MELISSA HORTMAN SUPPORTING THEM AND GETTING THEM ELECTED.

AND I DO FEAR THAT PEOPLE WILL BE SCARED TO RUN, BUT THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN RIGHT NOW THAN GOOD PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

>> Cathy: I THOUGHT I SAW YOU NOD YOUR HEAD.

>> IN THE END, I'D SAY, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING OTHER THAN PEOPLE DOING RISK ASSESSMENT.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT MAY THINK TWICE THAT OTHERWISE WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT IT WHEN THEY HEAR SOMEBODY POUNDING ON THEIR DOOR, 2:00, 3:00 IN THE MORNING, I SUSPECT THAT THERE'S AT LEAST A PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE, EVEN NOW, THAT WOULD COME TO THE OOR AND HAVE SOME KIND OF WEAPON IN REACH, MAYBE THERE WILL BE A FEW MORE, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THAT SHOULD BE THE CHANGE.

WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT IS HOW PEOPLE REACT AND RESPOND TO THIS POTENTIAL THREAT BECAUSE THESE THREATS THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW ARE NOT OBVIOUS, IT'S NOT KOOKS, THE FELLOW IN NEW YORK, BELTER -- BOELTER OVER HERE, THERE ARE DECENT PEOPLE IF YOU LOOK AT THEM EVERY DAY, SEEM AWFUL NORMAL, HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THAT?

>> Eric: DOOR KNOCKING, WALKING IN PARADES, WHETHER TO RUN OR NOT, WHAT'S A PITCH TO HAVE PEOPLE STILL SERVE?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO NOT WALK IN FEAR.

AND THAT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

I THINK IT'S EASIER OR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE THE AUDACITY TO PUT OUR NAMES IN THE HAT TO BEGIN WITH THAN PERHAPS OUR SPOUSES, OUR FAMILIES.

I KNOW I HAD A PARADE THE WEEK AFTER THE TRAGIC DEATHS OF MELISSA HORTMAN AND HER HUSBAND, MARK, AND MY WIFE WAS NOT TOO KEEN ON ME WALKING IN THAT, BUT I CHOSE TO DO IT ANYWAY, AND IT WAS TOTALLY FINE.

THERE ARE OTHER EVENT THAT IS NEED TO TAKE PLACE, I MEAN, YOU CAN'T -- EVENTS THAT NEED TO TAKE PLACE.

I MEAN, YOU CAN'T STOP LIVING BECAUSE SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

AND IF GOOD PEOPLE DECIDE THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS PROCESS, THEN THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE HARMFUL THAN WHAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED.

YEAH.

>> Eric: WONDERFUL PERSPECTIVES.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> Eric: THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING.

THANKS.

>> IT'S NO SECRET THAT I'M REACHING OUT TO INDEPENDENTS, AND INDEPENDENTLY-THINKING REPUBLICANS.

I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, WANT TO SEE PROGRESS AND PROSPERITY.

>> IF HE WINS THE PRESIDENCY, WELL, THEN, I HOPE I GET INVITED TO THE WHITE HOUSE AT SOME POINT.

>> CATHY: THE END OF THE HOUR IS NEAR, SO WE'RE GOING TO DIVE RIGHT INTO TONIGHT'S HISTORY QUESTION.

TWO WEEKS AGO WE ASKED YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN EARLY NOVEMBER 2003 IN DULUTH.

OVERLOOKING THE LAKE SUPERIOR HARBOR NOT ONE BUT TWO WORLD RECORD ATTEMPTS WERE SUCCESSFUL THAT FALL DAY.

THE RECORDS WERE SET BY A FATHER AND SON DUO, INVOLVED HEAVY SOLID MATERIALS.

THEY BOTH PRONOUNCED IT WAS A SUCCESS DESPITE MINOR SUSTAINING CUTS AND BRUISES.

WHAT TWO WORLD RECORDS WERE SET BY A FATHER AND SON DUO IN DULUTH?

EVEN WITH THOSE DETAILS, WE ONLY RECEIVED ONE PARTIAL RIGHT ANSWER.

SO WE'RE ASKING YOU AGAIN.

LISTEN CLOSELY.

WE ARE LOOKING FOR A FATHER AND SON DUO, EACH OF THEM SET A RECORD.

THINK YOU KNOW THE ANSWER?

651-229-1430 IS THE NUMBER TO CALL.

DIAL CAREFULLY.

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TIME FOR OUR SHOW-ENDING MUSIC.

THIS WEEK WE JUMP BACK JUST THREE YEARS TO 2022.

CANTUS, ONE OF MY FAVORITE GROUPS, CANTUS JOINED US LIVE IN STUDIO TO BELATEDLY CELEBRATE THEIR 25th ANNIVERSARY.

TAKE A LISTEN.

WE'LL SEE YOU IN JULY.

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