♪♪ >> CATHY: MINNESOTA'S BIG NEWS THIS WEEK?

WE HAVE A NEW $66 BILLION BUDGET FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

AND WE DIDN'T GET IT WITHOUT COMPROMISES FROM BOTH PARTIES AND IN BOTH CHAMBERS DURING THE SPECIAL SESSION.

LET'S TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT WHAT PASSED AND WHAT DIDN'T WITH THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL.

REPUBLICANS THIS WEEK: ANDY BREHM IS A FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR U.S.

SENATOR NORM COLEMAN, NOW A LAWYER AND COLUMNIST FOR THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

PAT GAROFALO RETURNS TO THE COUCH.

HE'S A FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE MINNESOTA GROCERS ASSOCIATION.

ON THE D.F.L.

SIDE, WE WELCOME BACK FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER TURNED ATTORNEY ABOU AMARA.

AND WE'RE REVIVING OUR TRADITION OF INVITING SITTING LAWMAKERS ONTO OUR POLITICAL PANEL WITH D.F.L.

REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ISA PEREZ-VEGA.

WELCOME, PANELISTS.

REPRESENTATIVE, WELCOME TO THE COUCH.

>> THANK YOU, IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE IN DISTRICT.

>> Cathy: SO AS MARY SHOWED THE REST OF US IN HER PIECE, YOU WERE RULED OUT OF ORDER IN THAT VERY EMOTIONAL DEBATE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR OVER IMMIGRANT HEALTHCARE.

AND I'M WONDERING, TWO D.F.L.

LEADERS VOTED FOR THAT, HORTMAN, AND MURPHY.

WHAT ARE THE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS FOR THOSE TWO BECAUSE THEY TOOK THOSE VOTES?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE LEADERS OF OUR CAUCUS ON BOTH SIDES, BUT IT WAS AN AGREEMENT THAT THEY MADE.

AND IT'S BEEN PUBLIC THAT US AND ME SERVING AS VICE CHAIR OF OUR P.O.C.I.

CAUCUS, OUR PEOPLE OF COLOR AND INDIGENOUS CAUCUS, WE HAD NO IDEA OF THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

AND SO THE LEADERSHIP ROLES HAVE BEEN PLACED INTO A KIND OF A FROZEN STUNT FOR THEM TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN BOTH CHAMBERS, WHEN YOU LEAD, YOUR FLOCK, AND YOU'RE THE SHEPHERD, YOU HAVE TO CONSULT WITH THOSE THAT ARE MOVING, THAT ARE LOOKING FOR THAT DIRECTION, AND ESPECIALLY AS A LAWMAKER WHO WORKED VERY HARD FOR THAT LAW TO PASS, AND REPRESENT A STRONG PREDOMINANT COMMUNITY OF IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT?

WE TALK ABOUT HARRIET ISLANDS THE ELLIS ISLAND OF THE MIDWEST.

THESE ARE THE HISTORICAL CONTEXTS THAT I LIKE TO HAVE IN THE CONVERSATIONS FOR THOSE LEADERS TO BRING IT INTO NEGOTIATION.

>> Mary: OKAY, FORMER HOUSE LEADER, YOU'VE SEEN -- DO YOU FEEL OR SENSE THAT THERE MIGHT BE ONE IN EITHER OF THESE CAUCUSES?

>> FIRST OF ALL, MARY AND CATHY, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

FORGOT TO SAY THAT LAST TIME.

THE REALITY IS THAT WHEN THERE'S REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS SHARING POWER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE COMPROMISES.

AND SO MAJORITY LEADER MURPHY, SPEAKER HORTMAN, AND MINORITY LEADER JOHNSTON ON THE SENATE AND SPEAKER DEMUTH, THEY HAD TO COME TO ACOMB PROMISE WITH GOVERNOR WALZ.

THERE'S A COMEDIAN BILL MAHER, HE HAS A SEGMENT, I CAN'T KNOW IT,BUT I CAN'T PROVE IT'S .

>> I DON'T KNOW WHO AGREES WITH YOU OVER HERE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I SEPARATE IT BETWEEN PROCESS AND POLICY OR POLITICS.

I THINK THE REPRESENTATIVE IS TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITHIN THE CAUCUS.

I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT BECAUSE I WASN'T IN THE CAUCUS.

I KNOW WHAT THAT'S LIKE FROM THE PAST.

ON THE MERITS, I THINK THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO SAY, ARE WE WILLING TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT TO KEEP THIS PROCESS?

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE TO GIVE ON SOMETHING.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT POLL NUMBERS?

IMMIGRATION IS A GOOD ISSUE FOR REPUBLICANS?

>> IT'S A VERY GOOD ISSUE FOR REPUBLICANS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICS ISN'T THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I MEAN, THERE'S SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES HERE AND WHERE AMERICANS AND MINNESOTANS ARE INCREDIBLY CONCERNED IS THE INFLUX OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS INTO THIS COUNTRY OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, 8 MILLION SOME THAT CAME INTO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOTALLY UNTENABLE.

SO VOTERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND THE IDEA THAT WE'RE OFFERING FREE HEALTHCARE TO NON-CITIZENS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND IT MAKES MINNESOTA A MAGNET FOR UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE.

BUT THE IDEA THAT -- I MEAN, AND IT GOES TO SHOW REALLY HOW RADICAL DEMOCRATS HAVE BECOME -- >> Mary: OKAY, LET'S GO INTERNATIONAL.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, NOTHING'S FREE, FIRST AND FOREMOST AND AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS FOUGHT MY ENTIRE LIFE TOMORROW ACCESSIBLE HEALTHCARE AS A TYPE ONE DIABETIC, LET'S COME TO THE TABLE HERE THAT IMMIGRANTS PAY TAXES AND DON'T GET ANYTHING IN RETURN, AND THIS YEAR, $222 MILLION, ESTIMATED.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LABOR OF YOUR FARMS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LABOR OF THESE BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE SITTING IN RIGHT NOW, THAT AIN'T FREE, OKAY?

AND THEY'RE BEING PAID TAXES AND FOLKS ARE RYING TO BECOME CITIZENS.

IT'S NOT AS IF THEY ARE HERE NOT WANTING TO BE LEGAL.

>> WE ARE HERE TRYING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN MINNESOTA BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR DECADES HAS FAILED ON THIS ISSUE.

SO YOU TALK ABOUT HEALTHCARE, HERE'S THE REALITY, UNDER FEDERAL LAW, WHEN A UNDOCUMENTED PERSON GOES INTO A HOSPITAL, THEY HAVE TO GET HEALTHCARE.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY AND THIS PROPOSAL IS IRRESPONSIBLE -- >> Mary: YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION MUCH -- [Overlapping conversations] >> I AM FURIOUS AT MY D.F.L.

-- MY FORMER DFL COLLEAGUES, RIGHT?

NOT ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

I'M MAD BECAUSE THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN RAISING TWO TAXES THIS YEAR.

NUMBER ONE, THEY RAISED TAXES ON POT SMOKERS.

SECONDLY, THEY RAISED TAXES ON ELECTRIC VEHICLE OWNERS.

THEY RAISED TAXES ON ME, REPRESENTATIVE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT RAISING TAXES, WE HAD A LITTLE CHCHIT-CHAT BACK IN HERE, WHERE CAN WE FIX THE INFLATION?

WHO GETS THE NEEDLE ON THE CROSS?

WHO GETS THE PIN ON THE CROSS?

IT'S OUR COMMUNITIES.

IT'S OUR OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES, THE CONTINUANCE OF AN AMERICAN DREAM GETS TO BE DECIDED ON WHO GETS TO HAVE THAT AMERICAN DREAM?

>> I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS -- THIS IS REALLY UCH A COMMON SENSE ISSUE FOR MOST PEOPLE.

WE SUPPORT LEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY.

WHEN IT COMES TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THE INFLUX IS SIMPLY UNSUSTAINABLE AND THAT'S SOMETHING -- > >> Mary: WHAT ABOUT TAXES, THROUGH?

>> THERE WERE SOME COMPROMISES THAT NEEDED TO BE HAD, BUT -- I MEAN, MINNESOTANS PAY PLENTY OF TAXES.

WE SHOULD BE CUTTING THEM.

>> ON ELECTRIC VEHICLE OWNERS AND POT SMOKERS.

WHAT WAS THE D.F.L.

DOING TO THEIR PROGRESSIVE BASE?

>> Cathy: CAN SOMEONE ASK -- IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, THE CANNABIS TAX IS GOING TO BE, LIKE, 25%.

>> YES.

>> IN SOME LOCATIONS.

>> AS ONE OF THE FEW -- >> Cathy: VERSUS THE LIQUOR TAX WHICH IS MUCH LOWER.

>> DID ANYBODY LIKE THAT?

>> I DEFINITELY AM NOT FOR RAISING TAXES FIRST AND FOREMOST.

>> SO THE -- I WAS ONE OF THE FEW REPUBLICANS THAT VOTED IN FAVOR OF LEGALIZING MARIJUANA.

THE PRIMARY REASON FOR DOING THIS WAS TO REPLACE THE BLACK MARKET OUT THERE AND THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.

IN THE CORE CITIES NOW, THESE ARE ON TOP OF THE REGULAR SALES TAXES.

SO IN THE CITY OF ST. PAUL, ABOUT 25%.

CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE JUST MADE IT MORE PROFITABLE FOR THE BLACK MARKET TO CONTINUE TO THRIVE.

IT IS A WORD THAT I USE SPARINGLY.

IT'S TOTALLY STUPID.

>> WE CAN DEBATE.

MACHINE POINT IS THIS.

LOOK AT LIQUOR, WHEN IT WAS ACTUALLY OUT OF PROHIBITION, LIQUOR, IT WAS SOME OF THE HIGHEST TAXES IN THE INDUSTRY.

TAXES WILL GO DOWN AS THE INDUSTRY GROWS.

[Overlapping conversations] >> I'D LIKE TO SEE ALL TAXES GO OWN.

I MEAN, HIGHER TAXES ON MARIJUANA SMOKING DOESN'T REALLY BOTHER ME.

I DIDN'T FAVOR LEGALIZING IT.

IT COMES WITH ENORMOUSOUS SOCIAL COSTS.

THE TAXPAYERS WILL BE PICKING UP.

I DON'T LIKE TO SEE ANY TAXES GOING UP -- >> N THIS OVERALL ISSUE, I RESPECT YOUR POSITION ON THAT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENTIRE ATIONALE FOR LEGALIZING THIS WAS TO -- THEY'RE ALREADY JACKING IT UP SO NOW -- LIQUOR HAS NEVER BEEN AT A 25% TAX RATE.

IT'S VERY FOOLISH.

>> Cathy: ASK YOU SOMETHING -- I'M GOING TO COMPLETELY SWITCH FOCUS HERE.

SO THE WORKING GROUP, THE EDUCATION WORKING GROUP DECIDED TO KIND OF KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD WHEN IT COMES TO SPECIAL EDUCATION CUTS AND IT HAD THIS BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION SO IT GIVES THEM POLITICAL COVER.

WOULD THAT BE RIGHT?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A STRUGGLE.

THIS IS PART OF BEING IN A TIED HOUSE.

THIS IS PART OF BEING IN A ONE-PERSON MAJORITY.

THERE'S THESE CONTINUOUS NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING THAT REALLY WENT INTO A MARGIN OF IF WE'RE GOING INTO A SPECIAL SESSION AND FOLK IS AS IN BOTH SIDES OF THE CAUCUSES, IN BOTH CHAMBERS ARE BEING LEFT OUT OF THE CONVERSATION.

SO THERE NEEDS TO BE A STEER OF WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE, TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS OF WHAT'S GOING TO BE ATTACKED.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN IN OUR STATE, BUT IT'S UP TO US, WELL, ME, AS A LAWMAKER NOW, TO GO AND HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH MY COLLEAGUES AND SAY, WHAT'S GOING TO FIX THESE METAPHORICALLY POT HOLES GAPS IN OUR DUCATION SYSTEM.

>> YOU WEREN'T IN THE ROOM ALL THE TIME WERE YOU?

>> LWAYS, ALWAYS.

NO, NO, NO.

>> BUT WHY IS, YOU KNOW, WHY IS IT THAT WE HAVE THIS FISCAL PROBLEM?

WHY IS THERE ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS STRUCTURAL DEFICIT?

IT'S BECAUSE TWO YEARS, THE DEMOCRATS LOST THEIR FISCAL MINDS AND RAISED SPENDING BY 38%.

>> Cathy: ABOU, YOU DISAGREE?

>> OF COURSE.

>> DID THEY RAISE SPENDING BY 38%?

>> THE LAST BUDGET WAS OVER 70 MILLION.

DO THE MATH, THIS ONE IS SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER?

WHY?

BECAUSE A LOT OF THE MONEY WAS ONE-TIME MONEY.

>> Mary: OKAY, FEDERAL CUTS, ANOTHER SPECIAL SESSION COMING?

WHEN?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

>> OH, I DO.

>> I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THE WAVES OF THE COMPASS ARE POINTING IN A YES NORTHERN WAY.

THAT SOMETHING'S ABOUT TO HIT.

AND I FEEL IT.

[Overlapping conversations] >> Mary: WALZ WILL CALL IT BECAUSE OF HIS NATIONAL PROFILE.

LOOK WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S FORCING US TO DO.

>> E MIGHT.

THE GOVERNOR LOVES NATIONAL ATTENTION.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

HE'S OBVIOUSLY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

HE'S PROBABLY THE ONLY UY THAT THINKS HE CAN ACTUALLY WIN.

BUT BRING IT ON.

THE FEDERAL CUTS ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

OUR COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT AND I WELCOME IT.

>> LIKE AS SOMEONE WHO REPRESENTS HE GROCERY INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE CHANGES TO THE S.N.A.P.

PROGRAM.

AND I WILL TELL YOU, WHETHER YOU'RE IN FAVOR OR AGAINST IT, THE CHANGES IN S.N.A.P.

DON'T START UNTIL FISCAL YEAR '28.

SO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANYTHING THAT IMPACTS ON THIS BIENNIUM.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE STUFF'S GOING TO BE IN THE TAILS.

>> HE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS CUTTING BILLIONS.

WE GOT TO ADJUST STUFF.

>> Cathy: NICELY DONE, EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU.

>> WE WERE NICE.