>> CATHY: LAWMAKERS HAVE MISSED ALL OF THEIR DEADLINES THIS WEEK.

WILL THEY MANAGE TO HAVE A DEAL IN PLACE IN TIME FOR GOVERNOR WALZ TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION NEXT WEEK?

OR WILL THINGS DRAG OUT CLOSER TO THE JUNE 30TH BUDGET DEADLINE?

THIS WEEK'S PANEL IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO END-OF-SESSION DEALS THAT MAKE IT AND THE DEALS THAT DON'T.

DEMOCRATS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

EMBER REICHGOTT JUNGE IS A FORMER ASSISTANT SENATE MAJORITY LEADER.

ABOU AMARA IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER WHO WORKED FOR A HOUSE SPEAKER, NOW AN ATTORNEY.

REPUBLICANS WITH US TONIGHT, AMY KOCH IS A FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, NOW LOBBISYT.

AND FRITZ KNAAK IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR NOW A PRACTICING ATTORNEY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF SENATORS ON THIS PANEL.

I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT.

>> I'M NOT ONE OF THEM.

>> Cathy: YOU AREN'T.

THIS IS CORRECT.

BUT YOU'RE FROM THE HOUSE, THAT'S GOOD.

SENATOR KOCH, WHY IS IT SO RIDICULOUSLY HARD TO GET A DEAL?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST -- FIRST OF ALL, THE HOUSES ARE ALMOST EVENLY DIVIDED, 34-33 IN THE SENATE, 67-67 IN THE HOUSE.

AND IT'S JUST -- YOU KNOW WHAT?

I WOULD SAY FOR LEADERS IS, YOU HAVE TO BRING ALONG YOUR CAUCUSES.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET A DEAL.

YOU CANNOT -- THERE'S NO WAY FOR -- YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE ADVANTAGE, HE'S ONE GUY, HE MAKES THE DECISION, HE GETS TO MAKE THE DECISION.

BUT THE LEADERS DON'T GET TO.

THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THEIR CAUCUS AND EXPLAIN THE DIGS -- EXPLAIN THE DECISION.

AND SOMETIMES WE'VE SEEN, IT COMES BACK WITH A BIG FAT NO.

AND THAT HAPPENED WITH THE EDUCATION FINANCE, WE WERE TOLD IT'S A DEAL, IT'S A WRAP, IT WENT TO WAYS AND MEANS IN THE HOUSE, AND GUESS WHAT?

DEMOCRATS SAID, NO GO.

NOT A DEAL.

>> Eric: THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN SO ON THE DEFENSIVE THIS YEAR, KIND OF PROTECTING WHAT THEY DID IN '23-24 CYCLE.

BUT IT ISN'T TWO YEARS AGO AFTER THE '24 ELECTION, AND I WONDER IF THE DEMOCRATS HAVEN'T PICKED THAT UP QUITE YET.

IT'S A DIFFERENT TIME.

>> WELL, IT IS A DIFFERENT TIME.

AND IT'S PARTIALLY DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE ISSUES AND THEY'RE TRYING TO PROTECT THAT.

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE POLITICS AROUND IT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE BROADER PICTURE, PUBLIC DISCOURSE IS REALLY DIFFERENT RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE TRUTH, OKAY.

YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT COMPROMISE IS ALMOST A DIRTY WORD.

YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT IN PUBLIC.

AND, SO, IT JUST MAKES IT HARDER, I THINK, OVERALL.

>> I WOULD AGREE, WITH EMBER, THAT COMPROMISE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, EACH LEGISLATURE'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST, IT DEPENDS ON WHO THE PLAYERS ARE.

BUT THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE IT'S SO IDEALOGICALLY DRIVEN.

SO THAT DOES NOT LEND ITSELF -- THAT'S A TOXIC THING TO HAVE ANYWAY LEGISLATIVE ENVIRONMENT.

AND IT DOESN'T LEND ITSELF AT ALL WELL TO ANY SORT OF A COMPROMISE.

>> THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE.

RIGHT NOW AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, THE ENERGY IS FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT AGAINST DONALD TRUMP AND A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.

AT THE SAME TIME, AT HOME, WE'RE A SPLIT LEGISLATURE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COMPROMISE COMPROMISE COMPROMISE COMPROMISE.

AND, SO, THAT PUTS DEMOCRATS IN A VERY DIFFICULT SPOT.

WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT.

BUT THAT'S KIND OF EMOTIONALLY WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS.

>> Cathy: SAY, CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT HERE?

WHAT IS UP WITH THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY THIS SESSION?

I MEAN -- YES, THE CONFERENCE COMMITTEES.

OBVIOUSLY LEADERSHIP MET FOR WHAT, TWO WEEKS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

THAT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

BUT THE CONFERENCE COMMITTEES HAVE NOT BEEN VERY PUBLIC AT ALL.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO, SPEAKER EMERITA HORTMAN WAS VERY CLEAR, SOMETIMES THERE ARE SENSITIVE THINGS THAT ARE SPOKEN ABOUT, THAT REALLY CAN'T HAPPEN IN PUBLIC.

TRUE.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

BUT THERE'S A BIG DITCHES BETWEEN SOME OF THOSE SENSITIVE ISSUES THAT NEED TO GET RESOLVED BEHIND THE CLOSED DOORS, IT DOES HAPPEN AND A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE THAT NEEDS TO MEET PUBLICLY.

WHAT HAPPENED, WE SAW IT IN 2023, WE SAW A DEGRADATION SINCE COVID, 2020, 2021, 2023, ALL THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN SILENCE, WITHOUT INPUT, AND MISTAKES GET PAID -- GET MADE IN A VERY BIG WAY, AND MULTIPLE EXAMPLES, I PROMISE YOU, PEOPLE IN '25, ALLOWING EXPERTS, ALLOWING -- WHEN IT COMES TO ED FINANCE, WHY ARE THE SUPERINTENDENTS, THE SCHOOL BOARDS, THE TEACHERS NOT IN A ROOM WEIGHING IN ON THESE BIG BILLS?

IT MAKES MISTAKES.

>> Cathy: DO YOU REMEMBER SENATOR POGEMILLER'S CONFERENCE COMMITTEES?

I MEAN, THEY WOULD CONFEREE OUT EVERY LITTLE THING IN THAT BILL.

>> OIFS THAN THIS EM.

>> RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>> AND IT WOULD BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

YES, FRITZ AND I, WE WOULD BE THERE, AND IT WAS VERY MUCH OPEN.

BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF THESE ISSUES THAT I TALKED ABOUT THAT, IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

IF YOU COMPROMISE IN PUBLIC, YOUR BASE GOES NUTS.

AND, SO, THEY'RE WANTING FINGER POINTING.

SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO DO THAT.

AND I REALLY DO UNDERSTAND, IF YOU WANT TO GET TO, YES, YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOME OF IT BEHIND THE DOORS.

>> WELL, BEFORE WE START THINKING WE WERE ALL SO PURE IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS -- [ Laughter ] I STILL REMEMBER OUR JUDICIAL REFORM BILL THAT WE HAD, TORT REFORM BILL, WHICH WAS DONE IN THE SENATE -- IN THE SENATE RETIRING ROOM, WHERE PRESS WAS NOT ALLOWED, NOT ENCOURAGED, ON A SUNDAY.

>> Eric: YOU CAN'T EVEN LOOK IN THERE, LET ALONE GO IN THERE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND, SO, THAT DEAL WAS DONE, PRECISELY BECAUSE THERE WAS NOBODY WATCHING, THERE WERE NO LOBBYISTS THERE.

PEOPLE WANTING TO PUT IN THAT EVER SO NECESSARY INPUT.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, YOU KNOW, LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES, THERE ISN'T, NEVER HAS BEEN A LEGISLATOR THAT HASN'T PREFERRED TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN IN PRIVATE.

>> Eric: AS A LAWYER, DO YOU WANT INSPECTOR GENERAL?

APPARENTLY THAT'S DEAD FOR THE SESSION.

ON THE FRAUD BUSINESS.

>> WELL, LOOK, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN INSPECTOR GENERAL AND THE FUNCTIONS THAT NEED TO BE PROVIDED TO ENSURE WE'RE INVESTIGATING IMPROPER CONTACT -- CONDUCT, MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S ACTUAL TEETH, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, OR THE LEGISLATURE CAN LOOK INTO.

I'M NOT WEDDED TO THE TITLE, I'M -- >> Eric: THAT'S AN ISSUE RIGHT FOR REPUBLICANS.

>> OH, VERY RIPE.

THE QUESTION THAT DID HAVE POWER, PEOPLE LIKE EITH ELLISON AND POWERS THAT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE BUILT TO -- AND THE BILITY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, DIDN'T AND LEFT US IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE THE LARGEST SINGLE SCANDAL IN THAT COVID PERIOD FOR THOSE FUNDS.

AND IT ISN'T REALLY GETTING BETTER.

RIGHT NOW, I THINK THE IDEA, IDEAS THAT ARE BEING ADVANCED ARE SOMETHING OF A RED HERRING.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST WORDS THAT ARE GOING TO PUT SOME TEETH BEHIND WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

>> Cathy: IT WAS APPEARING THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING WAS GOING TO PASS, THOUGH, THIS SESSION.

IT WAS KIND OF LOOKING BIPARTISAN.

BUT IT DERAILED.

>> THERE WAS A WONDERFUL BIPARTISAN BILL N THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD PATHWAY FORWARD.

AND IT'S ABSOLUTELY OPPOSITE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL, WHERE THEY'RE TAKING OUT INSPECTORS GENERAL.

SO, WHY THAT ISN'T GOING, I'M NOT SURE.

>> I THINK IT COMES DOWN TO MONEY.

>> YEAH.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> $18 MILLION, IGHT?

I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE DISAGREEMENT CAME.

THERE'S BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS, WE'VE GOT TO GET RID OF THE WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE.

HOW MUCH ARE WE GOING TO SPEND?

BE DUBIOUS AND ADD DIFFERENT AGENCIES WHEN WE CAN REALLY FOCUS THOSE EFFORTS.

>> THE PROBLEM IS, THIS HAS BEEN YEARS THAT THE FRAUD HAS BEEN GOING ON, AND THERE'S AN AN ABILITY AND AN OPPORTUNITY, AND, FRANKLY, $18 BILLION IN 2023 THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DIRECTED TOWARDS SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND IT WAS.

>> Eric: THE COMPLETE DISSENTENCE, THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION WILL BE KNOWN FOR -- COMPLETE THIS SENTENCE, THIS LEGISLATIVE WILL BE KNOWN FOR -- >> FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE.

>> Eric: SENATOR JUNGE?

>> FOR LOOKING TOWARD COMPROMISE.

>> OH, THAT'S SO NICE.

[ Laughter ] I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE DEADLOCKED.

IT'S GOING TO BE KNOWN FOR DEADLOCK.

>> YEAH, IT'S KNOWN FOR -- IT'S A LIGHT-ON LEGISLATURE.

>> Eric: CAN WE TALK TO POLITICS JUST A LITTLE BIT.

GOVERNOR WALZ TOLD MARY ON WEDNESDAY THAT HE'S INCLINED -- NO, I GUESS HE TOLD BRIAN THIS NOON.

BRIAN BAKST.

HE'S INCLINED TO RUN AGAIN.

>> OH, PLEASE.

>> Eric: I THINK I THINK I HAVE THE -- I THINK I HAVE THE TICKET.

>> TIM WALZ AND MELISSA LÓPEZ FRANZEN.

>> MELISSA FRANZEN, FORMER STATE SENATOR, DROPPED OUT, SHE WAS U.S. SENATE RACE FOR A HOT MINUTE.

AND RECENTLY JUST DROPPED OUT TO EVERYONE'S SURPRISE THAT.

LEFT A HIGH-PROFILE JOB AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

AND I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING AFOOT AS WELL, ERIC.

>> Cathy: HE'S INCLINED TO RUN.

>> I MEAN, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, HE'S SITTING ON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

HE HAS A NATIONAL PLATFORM, HE RAN FOR VICE PRESIDENT, HE'S WON MULTIPLE TIMES IN THIS STATE.

I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD A MORE POPULAR, IN TERMS OF KNOWN, KNOWN, IN TERMS OF POPULARITY, KNOWN GOVERN IN OUR -- GOVERNOR IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY.

>> HE'S CERTAINLY KNOWN.

BUT I DON'T THINK HE'S POPULAR.

MY OWN INCLINATION S, PLEASE GOD GIVE US TIM WALZ IF THEY HAD A DEMOCRATIC TICKET.

IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE AN INSTANT ANSWER.

WE'VE GOT OUR OWN PROBLEMS.

GOD KNOWS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF HAVING A CANDIDATE OR A TARGET FOR A REPUBLICANS TO LOOK AT, IT'S GOT TO BE WALZ.

>> BUT THAT'S PRECISELY WHY SOMEONE LIKE MELISSA LÓPEZ FRANZEN HELPS THE TICKET.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

>> BACK IN 2018, GOVERNOR WALZ, WHEN HE RAN, HE NEEDED TO GET THE BASE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BEHIND HIM, PEGGY FLANAGAN HELPED HIM DO THAT.

MELISSA LÓPEZ FRANZEN CAN HELP THE ELECTORATE IN THE SUBURBS.

>> I THINK YOU SHOULD RUN HER.

>> I THINK MELISSA LÓPEZ FRANZEN WOULD BE A VERY POWERFUL LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, SHE WOULD BE EXCELLENT IN GIVING HIM GUIDANCE WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND BALANCING HIS VIEWS.

>> HE SHOULD RETIRE AND LET HER RUN.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A TRADITION, THERE'S NO CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT, BUT THERE'S A BEEN A LONGSTANDING TRADITION OF JUST TWO TERMS FOR A GOVERNOR.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WILL NOT SIT WELL.

AS WELL AS THE GOVERNOR, ON THE NATIONAL STAGE, IN A VERY BIG WAY, AS MORE DETRACTORS NOW.

>> YES.

>> BUT THAT SAID, HE'S ALSO GOT A LOT OF MONEY IN THE BANK AND A LOT OF NAME ID.

AND MAYBE SWITCHING UP SOME IN THE ADMINISTRATION WITH THE NEW L.G.

>> I THINK HE DOES HAVE SOME WORK TO DO IN THE RURAL AREAS OF OUR STATE.

SO I DO THINK THAT HE AS TO BUILD HIS COALITION AGAIN.

>> Eric: GIVE US A REPUBLICAN NAME FOR GOVERNOR?

KENDALL QUALLS IS OUT THERE.

>> KRISTIN ROBBINS.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER ONE.

>> STATE REP KRISTIN ROBBINS.

>> athy: OMEONE MENTIONED SPEAKER DEMUTH.

>> YEAH, WELL, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SPEAKER DEMUTH.

AND I BELIEVE SHE IS GOING TO BE RUNNING FOR SOMETHING ELSE SOMEDAY, BUT I LOVE HAVING HER AS SPEAKER DAY NORTH A WHILE, TOO.

I LOVE HAVING HER IN THE HOUSE.

>> SHE'S DOING VERY WELL WHERE SHE IS.

>> Eric: I'M BURSTING WITH PRIDE THAT I CALM WITH SOME USABLE NUGGET HERE.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: GOOD FOR YOU.