>> ERIC: THE ONGOING WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS MAY BE HALFWAY ACROSS THE WORLD, BUT THE CONFLICT HAS REVERBERATED IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS MINNESOTA.

CEASEFIRE RESOLUTIONS HAVE PASSED FROM HASTINGS TO THE RED LAKE NATION.

IN MINNEAPOLIS, MAYOR JACOB FREY VETOED A RESOLUTION.

AND HERE IN ST. PAUL, THE CITY COUNCIL HAS DECLINED TO TAKE UP A CEASEFIRE RESOLUTION, RESULTING IN PROTESTORS SHUTTING DOWN A COUNCIL MEETING EARLIER THIS WEEK.

NATHAN STOCK IS A NON-RESIDENT SCHOLAR AT THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE.

STOCK IS AN EXPERT ON THE MIDDLE EAST CONFLICT WHO HAS LIVED IN BOTH THE GAZA STRIP AND ISRAEL.

AND NOW LIVES IN THE TWIN CITIES.

WELCOME.

WHY IS THE DISAGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE SO INTENSE?

>> WELL, I THINK IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, THERE HAS BEEN A NEW CONSTITUENCY ON THE LEFT IN THE UNITED STATES SUPPORTING PALESTINIAN RIGHTS.

THERE'S A MUCH LARGER BODY OF AMERICANS WHO HOLD THAT VIEW.

AND THAT WASN'T THE CASE EVEN TEN YEARS AGO AROUND THE 2014 GAZA WAR.

SO THERE ARE, THEREFORE, A LOT MORE VOICES IN THE DEBATE IN OUR UNITED STATES THAN WE HAVE HISTORICALLY SEEN ON THIS ISSUE.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT OURSELF EFORE WE KIND OF GET INTO HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS CONFLICT.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU'VE LIVED IN BOTH THE GAZA STRIP AND IN ISRAEL AND HOW HAVE THOSE LIFE EXPERIENCES SHAPED HOW YOU DO YOUR WORK?

>> WELL, I HAVE AN INTIMATE FEELING FOR WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LIVE IN A GENERATIONS-LONG CONFLICT, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN LIVING.

AND I TAKE THAT WORLD VIEW INTO ALL OF MY WORK.

PARTICULARLY IN THE CASE OF GAZA, IT MAKES ME VERY AWARE OF THE WIDER CONTEXT.

I MOVED TO GAZA WHEN WAS I WAS IN MY MID-20s IN THE SPRING OF 2000.

AT THAT TIME, THE VAST MAJORITY.

PALESTINIANS WHO LIVED THERE COULDN'T LEAVE.

IT WAS ALREADY AN OPEN AIR PRISON FOR THEM.

AND THAT WAS AT THE HEIGHT OF THE SO-CALLED PEACE PROCESS IN THE '90s.

SO THAT CONTEXT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY.

ISRAELI RESTRICTIONS ON GAZA, ON THE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE AND GOODS HAVE HAD A PROFOUNDLY DAMAGING EFFECT ON THE ECONOMY.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

YOU KNOW, BEFORE OCTOBER 7 WAS 45, 50%.

RIGHT?

SO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS IS A REALLY HORRIFYING AND TRAGIC EXPLOSION OF VIOLENCE THAT'S CAUSED, YOU KNOW, ENORMOUS HARM TO CIVILIANS ON BOTH SIDES.

BUT IT IS ALSO AN OUTGROWTH OF LONG-RUNNING ISRAELI POLICIES OF CONTROL OVER PALESTINIANS AND A REFUSAL TO GRANT THEM SELF-DETERMINATION AND FREEDOM THE WAY WE WOULD UNDERSTAND IT AS AMERICANS.

>> Eric: HOW -- IF YOU WERE GOING TO SIT DOWN PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES AND DO CONFLICT RESOLUTION, WHERE DID YOU START ON THIS?

IT SEEMS INTRACTABLE.

>> YEAH, AND IT'S WORSE NOW.

I AM, IT'S WORSE AFTER THE COLLECTIVE TRAUMAS THAT BOTH SIDES ARE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW.

BUT IT REINGD REINFORCES FOR MEE IMPORTANCE OF TRYING TO ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING ISSUES HERE.

IT MEANS ENSURING THAT PALESTINIANS GET RIGHTS OF SOME KIND.

EITHER THEY GET A STATE OF THEIR OWN.

PERHAPS THEY GET SOME SORT OF EQUAL RIGHTS AND A UNITARY STATE.

BUT THE EVENTS OF THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN A HORRIBLE WAY THAT THE ISRAELI POLICY OF ISOLATING PALESTINIANS AND THINKING THAT THEY COULD KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

THEY DON'T NEED TO SOLVE THIS.

BUT THIS ISN'T WORKING.

I MEAN, IT'S LED TO HORRIFYING VIOLENCE.

SO AS MUCH AS THE TWO SIDES ARE TRAUMATIZED RIGHT NORTHERN, AS MUCH AS THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK TO EACH OTHER AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, THEY NEED TO FIND A WAY TO LIVE TOGETHER, AND THAT MEANS THAT BOTH PEOPLES NEED RIGHTS NAIL WAY THAT HASN'T BEEN TRUE FOR THESE DECADES NOW.

>> Cathy: OF COURSE ISRAELI THEY FEAR BIEL ELIMINATED, YOU KNOW, SO HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THEIR MEEDZ?

NEEDS?

>> THERE HAVE BEEN IDEAS ON THE TABLE.

LIKE, AS AN EXAMPLE, SHOULD YOU EVER HAVE A PALESTINIAN STATE IN THE WEST BANK IN GAZA, YEARS AGO THE PALESTINIAN STATE AGREED THAT THAT STATE WOULD BE DEMILITARY DEMILITARIZED.

SO THERE ARE SECURITY MECHANISMS TO ADDRESS, IDENTIFICATION LEGITIMATE ISRAELI SECURITY CONCERNS BUT YOU HAVE TO START WITH SOME ISRAELI WILLINGNESS TO ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO HAVE A FREE COUNTRY OF THEIR OWN WHICH WE HAVEN'T HAD.

>> Cathy: MINNEAPOLIS, OTHER PLACES IN MINNESOTA WHEN IT COMES UP BEFORE LOCAL CITY COUNCILS, WHY SHOULD LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKE THIS ISSUE UP?

WOULDN'T THAT JUST ADD TO THE STRIFE?

SHOULD LOCAL GOVERNMENT JUST STAY OUT OF THIS ISSUE OR SHOULD THEY INGEAJ?

>> I'M OF TWO MINDS OF THIS.

I'M ODE.

SO BEING A LITTLE OLD-FASHIONED, OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DON'T HAVE FOREIGN POLICY.

SO THERE IS AN ARGUMENT TO SAY, NO, WHY WOULD YOU COMMENT ON ANY MATTER OF FORNG POLICY, RIGHT?

THAT SAID, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY AS A JUSTICE ISSUE, PEOPLE WANT TO GO ON RECORD ON THIS.

AND THIS IS WHERE IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT THE FIGHTING IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS IN THE CONTEXT OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW, THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS AND OTHER WATERS IN THE 21ST CENTURY, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU HAVE NOW, WHAT?

30,000 PALESTINIAN DEAD, OF THE CONFIRMED DEAD, 70% ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

20,000 WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS CIVILIAN DEAD IS CERTAINLY MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT.

THAT PERCENTAGE OF CIVILIAN DEATHS IS MUCH HIGHER THAN OTHER COMPARABLE ARMED CONFLICTS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

I MEAN, THE UNITED STATES AND OUR ALLIES, IN 20 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A CONFIRMED TOTAL OF AROUND 12,000 CIVILIAN DEAD, IN 20 YEARS.

IN THIS CASE, IN FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS, 20,000 WOMEN AND CHILDREN KILLED.

SO I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS.

AND FEEL THE NEED TO SPEAK OUT.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR