♪♪ >> ERIC: SUNDAY IS JUNE 1ST.

WITHOUT A STATE BUDGET PASSED, THAT MEANS 30-DAY LAYOFF NOTICES WILL GO OUT TO STATE WORKERS.

GOVERNOR WALZ AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS STARTED THE WEEK WITH THE GOAL OF PASSING A BUDGET IN TIME TO STAVE OFF THOSE NOTICES.

WHAT HAPPENED?

LET'S SEE IF OUR FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER DUO CAN HELP ENLIGHTEN US.

DFLER MARGARET ANDERSON KELLIHER SERVED TWO LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS AS HOUSE SPEAKER.

SHE HELD THAT POSITION FROM JANUARY 2007 TO JANUARY 2011.

ALSO SERVING TWO SESSIONS, REPUBLICAN KURT DAUDT SERVED AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE FROM JANUARY 2015 TO JANUARY OF 2019.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

I AM INTERESTED IN THIS TIME OF YEAR AS THE CAUCUS LEADER AND THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, ARE YOU HAND HOLDING MEMBERS?

ARE YOU GIVING THEM TOUGH LOVE?

ARE YOU DEEPING THEM IN THE LOOP?

WHAT'S THE ROLE OF THE SPEAKER?

>> I THINK ALL OF THAT, RIGHT, SPEAKER?

>> ALL OF THAT AND TRYING TO KEEP THEM IN THE STATE AT THIS POINT.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE OTHER PROBLEM WE HAVE.

PEOPLE HAVE LIVES.

>> WEDDINGS AND GRADUATIONS.

IT'S TOUGH.

>> YEAH, WHEN YOU GO INTO OVERTIME, IT BECOMES MUCH HARDER FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

>> AND I THINK THE STAKES ARE HIGHER TOO, RIGHT?

THERE'S A LOT MORE PRESSURE.

AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE PRESSURE RIGHT NOW TOO BECAUSE AS YOU REMEMBER, BACK WHEN I WAS SPEAKER, ACTUALLY, WE GOT A SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT SAID A SHUTDOWN REALLY IS A SHUTDOWN NOW, THAT THE COURTS CANNOT APPROPRIATE MONEY.

SO WE HAVEN'T HAD A SHUTDOWN SINCE THAT DECISION.

AND IT MEANS THAT THEY REALLY HAVE TO GET THEIR WORK DONE OR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, PRISONS LETTING PEOPLE OUT AND - >> LET'S HOPE NOT.

>> WE WON'T GET THERE, BUT IT'S HIGH STAKES.

>> Cathy: HOW DIFFICULT ARE NEGOTIATIONS NOW DO YOU THINK?

BECAUSE THE MARGINS ARE SO TIGHT?

>> OH, THIS IS -- I MEAN, I DO THINK THIS SHOULD BE NOT A BIG SURPRISE THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, APPROACHING JUNE AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE AT.

MAINLY BECAUSE OF HOW TIGHT THIS IS.

AND HOW MUCH NEGOTIATION.

WE SAW IT EVEN RIGHT EFORE THE EDGED OF WHAT WE WOULD CALL THE REGULAR SESSION.

AND REALLY ISSENT COMING OUT ABOUT THE PARTIAL DEAL THAT WAS ANNOUNCED THEN.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD TO DO THIS.

AND IT'S EVEN HARDER BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE MEMBERS HAVE NOT, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THEY'RE KEEPING THEM INFORMED AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, BUT THINGS ARE CHANGING RAPIDLY, SO THAT'LL BE THE DIFFICULT PARTED NEXT WEEK.

>> Eric: BUT HORTMAN, THE HOUSE SPEAKER EMERITA, AND SENATOR MURPHY, THE D.F.L.

SENATE LEADER, THEY BOTH GOT I THINK CRITICIZED HEAVILY BY THEIR CAUCUSES ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE UNDOCUMENTED HEALTHCARE.

DID THEY MISS OUT THE CONVERSATION PIECE?

>> WELL, IT'S TOUGH, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE ROOM AND YOU'RE MAKING THOSE DEALS, YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT WITH YOUR CAUCUS OUTSIDE OF THOSE AND BALANCE THAT WITH BEING ABLE, YOU KNOW, NOT SAYING TOO MUCH, BUT BALANCING IT WITH, SAYING ENOUGH THAT YOUR CAUCUS IS WITH YOU AND GOING TO FOLLOW ALONG.

AND I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF BILLS THAT I THINK ARE GOING TO BE ONES TO WATCH.

ONE IS GOING TO BE THAT HEALTH BILL.

ON THE DEMOCRAT IDE, THAT BILL IS GOING TO HAVE A LOSS OF HEALTHCARE FOR UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

FOR AT LEAST ADULTS.

AND ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THERE'S SOME PRESSURE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT REPUBLICAN MEMBERS, AND THEY'RE GETTING PRESSURE FROM OUTSIDE GROUPS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE VOTING TO FUND ABORTION.

AND I THINK THE RIGHT ANSWER IS, NO, THEY'RE NOT, BUT THERE ARE OUTSIDE GROUPS SAYING THAT THEY ARE BECAUSE MEDICARE AND MEDICAID DOLLARS BY COURT DECISION CAN BE USED FOR THAT.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME REPUBLICANS AND SOME DEMOCRATS THAT DON'T WANT TO VOTE FOR THAT BILL.

>> WELL, AND YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING ELSE COME OUT HERE BECAUSE I DO THINK THERE'S SOME PRESIDENTURE WITH ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO AVE -- AND WE SAW A COUPLE OF THESE STORIES COME OUT THIS WEEK, PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDERGOING CANCER TREATMENT.

AND THEY HAVE THEIR, YOU KNOW, DO YOU SHUT OFF THEIR COVERAGE AT THE END OF DECEMBER OF THIS YEAR?

I THINK THAT SEEMS VERY INHUMANE.

AND SO I AM WONDERING IF THERE'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING ELSE OR SOME WAY TO COMPROMISE YET ON THE ISSUE.

>> Eric: ON THE ISSUE OF TRANSPARENCY, IT WOULD TAKE LONGER, BUT WOULD THE FINAL PRODUCT BE ANY DIFFERENT IF IT WAS IN PUBLIC RATHER THAN IN PRIVATE?

IT WOULD TAKE LONGER BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE POSTURING.

>> I THINK IT COULD TAKE LONGER.

>> Eric: AND A CAMERA DOES CHANGE BEHAVIOR.

>> I'VE BEEN ON RECORD IN THE PAST SAYING THAT THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD PASS THE BILLS.

THEY SHOULD COME TO AGREEMENT AND ASS THE BILLS AND END THEM TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND LET THE GOVERNOR SIGN THEM OR VETO THEM, INSTEAD OF LET THE GOVERNOR SIT AT THE TABLE AND NEGOTIATE THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

I THINK SENATOR BAKK AND I BACK IN 2015, THAT WAS KIND OF THE LAST TIME WHERE WE REALLY DO DID THAT.

AND WE TRIED TO INCLUDE THE GOVERNOR BUT IT JUST KIND OF FELL APART.

WE NEEDED TO GET DONE ON TIME.

>> I THINK THEY ARE WHERE THEY ARE.

AND IT'S HARD TO DO THIS ALL IN PUBLIC.

BUT MAYBE THERE ARE SOME MECHANISMS TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH THE PUBLIC MORE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE DONE SOME UPDATING AND BRIEFINGS.

BUT THEY'VE BEEN MORE ABOUT PROCESS.

AND NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE.

AND IT IS HARD.

WE TRIED THIS.

WE TRIED WHEN GOVERNOR PAWLENTY WAS THE GOVERNOR.

AND SENATOR POGEMILLER AND I WERE LEADING.

WE ATTEMPTING O DO SOME VERY PUBLIC NEGOTIATIONS.

>> Eric: I REMEMBER.

>> HEARINGS, HEARINGS CAN BE PUBLIC.

ABSOLUTELY AND EVEN IF THEY'RE INFORMATIONAL.

AND SO MAYBE THAT'S ACOMB PROMISE HERE.

>> Cathy: WELL, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE CONFEREES WERE A LITTLE UPSET BECAUSE THEY FELT THAT THEY WERE NOT BEING LISTENED TO, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FINAL REPORT WAS JUST KIND OF GIVEN TO THEM AND THEY WERE SUPPOSE ATTEND TO SIGN OFF ON IT.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHERE OUR RANK AND FILE LAWMAKERS ARE ON THIS TOO.

>> WELL, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM THEY'RE GOING O HAVE, BECAUSE ANY ONE PERSON CAN WITHHOLD THEIR VOTE OR WITHHOLD, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE MOST POWERFUL HING YOU HAVE WHEN YOU'RE ELECTED IS YOUR VOTE.

AND SO I'M NOT NECESSARILY ADVOCATING THAT HERE.

BUT I THINK THAT'S -- WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE SOME OF THAT.

>> I'M ACTUALLY SURPRISES.

YOU SERVED AT A TIME WHEN THE HOUSE WAS VERY CLOSE, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT?

>> NO.

>> IT WAS BEFORE YOUR TENURE.

>> I HAD A VERY ICE MARGIN.

>> WHERE IT WAS TWO SEATS AND IT MEANT THAT IF ONE PERSON DEFECTED, IT WAS -- I TAKE THAT BACK.

IT WAS WHEN EPUBLICANS HAD THE MAJORITY, STEVE SVIGGUM AND THERE W WAS A TWO-SEAT MAJORITY AND MEMBERS FIGURED OUT THAT ONE MEMBER COULD HOLD THE ENTIRE CHAMBER HOSTAGE.

I'M KIND OF SURPRISED THAT THAT EXPWBZ HAPPENED THIS SESSION.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE KEEPING EVERYBODY INFORMED OR MEMBERS JUST HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT.

>> Eric: WHERE ARE YOU GUYS ON REMOTE VOTING?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY'VE COME TO THIS HAPPY MEDIUM AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THE DATA PRACTICES ACT HAS CHANGED IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO ALLOW LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO DO MORE OF THIS AS LONG AS YOU CAN SEE THE PERSON, WE'RE DOING AWAY -- I GUESS DOING AWAY WITH THIS PIECE WHERE YOU HAD TO NOTICE WHERE Y YOU WERE.

SO I THINK WHAT HAPPENED HERE IS LOCAL GOVERNMENT LEADERS SAID, IF THE LEGISLATURE CAN KEEP DOING THIS, WHY DON'T WE GET TO HAVE THIS MNIBUS?

I THINK IT'S AN OKAY OPTION BECAUSE WHAT IT DOES IS IT ALLOWS FOR PARTICIPATION ESPECIALLY IF PEOPLE HAVE HAD A HEALTH EMERGENCY OR ANY SORT OF HEALTH ISSUE.

I WOULD FROWN ON IT IF IT BECAME A HABIT OF THE >> I HAVE THOUGHT THAT ALWAYS THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE THE REMOTE VOTING.

I THINK MEMBERS SHOULD HAVE TO BE THERE AND PRESS THEIR BUTTON IN PERSON.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT THERE ANYMORE.

I GUESS THEY'LL DECIDE HOW THEY WILL PROCEED.

>> Cathy: SO THE GOVERNOR, THIS WEEKEND, IS APPEARING BEFORE -- DOING SOME SPEECHES IN IS.

ARE.

SOUTH CAROLINA AND CALIFORNIA BEFORE POLITICAL CONVENTIONS AND HE SAID THAT THE LEADERSHIP HAS IT UNDER CONTROL.

WHAT'S HIS ROLE IN ALL OF THIS?

AND I'VE HEARD SPEAKER DAUDT -- >> I'VE HEARD SPEAKER DAUDT'S DECISION ON THAT THAT THE GOVERNOR SHOULDN'T SIT AT THE TABLE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE GOVERNOR IN WHERE WE ARE WITH THIS GOVERNOR HAS PRETTY WELL LAID OUT POSITIONS.

COMMISSIONERS WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

AS WELL AS A GOOD STAFF.

AND SO 'M NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT.

IN THE PROCESS.

IF THEY HAD NOT HAD THAT OVERALL BUDGET AGREEMENT, IT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC.

>> I THINK HE RUNS A RISK, THOUGH, PUBLICLY, OF NOT BEING PRESENT AS THINGS ARE COMING TOGETHER.

AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY HE'S WEIGHING THAT POLITICALLY.

AND HE THINKS THERE'S A BIGGER UPSIDE TO TRAVELING AROUND AND MAYBE FILLING A BIGGER ROLE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

>> Eric: I WONDER LONGER TERM WITH THE 2030 CENSUS ON THE HORIZON, IF SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE TO AVOID A TIE IN THE HOUSE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT OVER THE YEARS OF CHANGING.

AND MAYBE ACTUALLY NESTING AN EQUAL NUMBER OF HOUSE AND SENATE DISTRICTS IN EACH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, SO CHANGING THE MAKEUP OF THE LEGISLATURE SO YOU CHANGE THE NUMBERS AND YOU OULDN'T END UP WITH AN EQUAL TIE.

IT JUST HAS REALLY NEVER CAUGHT STEAM.

>> Eric: BUT NOW, I KNOW AS NERDY AND EVERYTHING, BUT REALLY IT'S 67-67, IT FOSTERS SOME PROBLEMS.

>> FOR ONLY THE SECOND TIME IN HISTORY.

>> YEAH, THE CONSTITUTION IS FULL OF NERDY THINGS.

THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE USED TO TALK ABOUT THE STATE CONSTITUTION, GO READ IT SOMETIME.

YOU KNOW, IT IS REALLY NERDED.

SO THIS IS THE NERDY ISSUE THAT I THINK MINNESOTANS MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN.

>> Eric: DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE 135 OR 133?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS TURNS AND IF THEY FINISH BY JULY 1.

GLI WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON THEM MAKING IT >> I SAY NEXT WEEK IS A LONG SHOT YET.

BUT THE FOLLOWING WEEK IS MY BET.

>> I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT'S PROBABLY WHEN IT COMES TOGETHER.

WE'RE A TWO TOE THREE WEEKS FROM EVERYTHING FINALIZING AND WRAPPING.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT THAT POINT WHERE 95% DONE BUT 95% YET TO GO.

THOSE LAST BIG DECISIONS ARE ALWAYS THE CONVERSATIONAL ONES.

SO WE'LL SEE.

>> ONE YARD TO THE GOAL LINE AND MAN, IS IT GOING TO BE A SLOG.

>> Cathy: YOU GUYS WOULD KNOW TOO.

>> YEAH, RIGHT.

WE'RE THANKFUL WE'RE NOT THERE.

>> Cathy: I CAN ONLY IMAGINE