♪♪ >> CATHY: AS NOTED MULTIPLE TIMES TONIGHT, ONE OF THE BIG PIECES OF NEWS THIS WEEK RELATING TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD WAS THE REQUEST FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO VACATE THE FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE IMPOSED UPON THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THE MPD CONSENT DECREE STORY AND HISTORY OF POLICING WITH YOHURU WILLIAMS, A HISTORIAN WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS AND DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL'S RACIAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE.

>> THIS HAS BEEN AN ONGOING STORY.

WHEN LAST WE TALKED, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE.

>> WE WERE.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE NOT SURPRISED THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED.

>> NO, UNFORTUNATELY, WE ANTICIPATED THAT THIS WOULD BE THE OUTCOME.

AND, OF COURSE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CHOOSING THE FIFTH-YEAR ANNIVERSARY, SUCH CLOSE PROXIMITY TO ACTUALLY MOVE FOR THE DISMISSAL, I THINK WAS TROUBLING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE BUT NOT SURPRISING.

>> Eric: YOU DON'T THINK THE TIMING IS A COINCIDENCE?

>> NOT AT ALL.

NOT AT ALL.

IT WAS DEFINITELY INTENDED TO, I THINK, INFLICT PAIN ON THIS COMMUNITY IN A WAY THAT, AGAIN, YOU WOULD ASSUME THAT SINCE WE ALL EXPERIENCED THIS TOGETHER AND THIS WAS BOTH A NATIONAL AND A LOCAL CONCERN, THE IMPULSE TO SEE THIS WORK CONTINUE, BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, THE ADMINISTRATION'S NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.

>> Cathy: IT LOOKS LIKE THE DOJ SAID THAT THE DECREE WAS ANTI-POLICE.

>> YES.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> AGAIN, VERY PROBLEMATIC, AND I THINK CONSISTENT WITH THE POLITICAL LEANINGS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN THIS REGARD.

BUT DIVORCED FROM THE REALITY OF THE HISTORY OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE AND A LARGER QUESTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING WHICH SHOULD BE THE FOUNDATION FOR ALL DEPARTMENTS NATIONALLY.

>> Eric: YOU'RE BIG ON THE HISTORY OF THIS STUFF.

AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD COMPARE AND CONTRAST, LIKE THE CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLES OF THE '60s TO KIND OF THE POLICING ISSUES OF TODAY.

IS THERE ANY KIND OF PARALLEL AT ALL?

>> PARALLELS IN THE SENSE THAT DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA, ONE OF THE BIG CONCERNS WAS THE LACK OF RESTRAINT ON SOUTHERN POLICE DEPARTMENTS, PARTICULARLY COMMISSIONS OF PUBLIC SAFETY, LIKE PEOPLE LIKE EUGENE BULLKOTTER, WHO ROUTINELY ENGAGED IN ACTS OF BRUTALITY GAINST COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

THE CHALLENGE IN THAT MOMENT, THOUGH, PEOPLE LARGELY SAW THAT AS A SOUTHERN PHENOMONA, IT WAS A NATIONAL PHENOMONA, SO YOU HAD POLICE BRUTALITY IN NORTHERN CITIES AS WELL.

IN OUR MOMENT, AS WE THINK ABOUT THIS PROBLEM AND THIS CHALLENGE TODAY, THE FOCUS IS ON MINNEAPOLIS, BUT THE REALITY IS, THIS IS A NATIONAL PROBLEM, WE NEEDED A JUSTICE -- GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE IN POLICING ACT, WHICH WE DIDN'T GET, AND THE FEAR IS THAT WE'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, DAYS AWAY FROM ANOTHER INCIDENT THAT WILL BRING US ALL RIGHT BACK TO THE SITUATION.

MINNEAPOLIS WAS GROUND ZERO THIS TIME.

BUT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER COMMUNITIES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, NEW YORK CITY.

>> Eric: LOUISVILLE.

>> EXACTLY.

WHO HAVE BEEN AT THE EPICENTER OF THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS.

>> Cathy: A LITTLE ORE HISTORY HERE.

THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS MADE IN THE PAST TO REFORM THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT.

YOU AND I TALKED ON MPR ABOUT THIS.

HUBERT HUMPHREY ATTEMPTED, DID HE NOT?

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: SO DID THE FORMER MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS.

>> AND THIS MOMENT TO ME FEELS LIKE 1975 WHERE YOU HAD A GREAT COMBINATION OF AL HOFFSTAD AND JENSEN, AND AS POLICE CHIEF AND MAYOR.

>> Cathy: YES.

>> THE CHALLENGE IN THAT MOMENT WAS, THEY WERE ACTUALLY MAKING SOME HEADWAY WITH REGARDS TO REFORM, AND IT WAS REGIME CHANGE THAT ULTIMATELY UPENDED THAT REFORM.

I HEARD YESTERDAY MAYOR FREY MAKE THIS FULL-THROATED PLEDGE TO CONTINUE THE WORK OF IMPLEMENTING THE FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INVOLVED, BUT HE REALITY IS, THE REASON WE NEED THE OVERSIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE IS, THE DEPARTMENT HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

AND BOTH MAYOR FREY AND CHIEF O'HARA ARE UP FOR THE END OF THEIR TERM.

SO THEY CAN MAKE THOSE PLEDGES, BUT IF A NEW ADMINISTRATION COMES IN, NEW CHIEF COMES IN, WOULD THAT WORK CONTINUE?

>> Eric: IS MOMENTUM HARD TO MAINTAIN?

AND I WONDER IF IT'S -- IT'S FIVE YEARS, AND THERE WILL BE A SPURT OF ACTIVITY THIS WEEKEND.

BUT IS THE MOMENTUM STILL A PLUS POSSIBLE?

>> I THINK IT'S STILL POSSIBLE.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO LOSE HOPE.

I THINK PRIMARILY BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME HIGH-PROFILE CASES, AND CHIEF SPOKE TO THIS, THERE ARE DEFINITELY POCKETS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY WHO REMAIN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF CHIEF O'HARA AND SUPPORTIVE OF THE REFORMS, AND THERE ARE OTHER CASES THAT STOKE THE WOUNDS, THE MEMORY.

I THINK THE MATURI CASE IS ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES THE CASE OF ALLISON E SEWER, THE INDIGENOUS WOMAN WHO PASSED AWAY, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SAID IT WAS ONE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, THE DEPARTMENT SAID IT WAS A DRUG OVERDOSE.

PARTICULARLY BLAX AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED IN THIS COMMUNITY, REALLY THE WAY THEY THINK ABOUT THIS CONTEMPORARY MOMENT AND HOW THEY'RE RESPONDING AND THE LONG-TERM HOPE IN CHANGES IN THE MPD.

>> Cathy: I WONDER HOW ANY CHALLENGES IN LABOR, MANAGEMENT RELATIONS IN THE DEPARTMENT MAY ALSO AFFECT REFORM MOVING FORWARD.

>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

PART OF THE CHALLENGE IS PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE POLICE UNION.

THAT WAS A BIG IMPEDIMENT IN 2020, THAT WAS A BIG PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

THE POLICE UNION, OBVIOUSLY SOME ARE SPECULATING MAY NOT BE UNHAPPY ABOUT THE RECENT DECISION NOT TO GO FORWARD WITH THE CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING.

AND, SO, THE BIG QUESTION IS, ARE THEY WAITING OUT ON THIS REGIME CHANGE THAT'S INEVITABLE, AND WILL WE GO BACK TO THE CULTURE THAT, YOU KNOW, O'HARA HAS WORKED SO HARD TO DEAL WITH IT, COUNCIL PERSON JENKINS TALKED ABOUT, IT'S REALLY THAT CULTURE CHANGE THAT WILL BE IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF LONG-TERM SUSTAINABILITY.

>> Eric: AL SHARP NONE HIS EULOGY SAID, YOU CHANGED THE WORLD, GEORGE, TAKE YOUR REST.

DID HE?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, NO.

PART OF THE CHALLENGE IN THIS MOMENT, PEOPLE ARE STILL REALLY HOPING FOR THE TRAGEDY WITH A HAPPY ENDING.

WE DON'T HAVE A HAPPY ENDING HERE.

WE HAVE THE WORK THAT REMAINS TO BE DONE.

WE CONTINUE TO WRITE THAT STORY.

AGAIN, I HOPE COMMUNITY WILL CONTINUE TO STAY IN THAT WORK, FOLLOW THE WORK OF PEOPLE LIKE COMMUNITCOMMUNITIES UNITED AGAIT POLICE BRUTALITY, THE MINNESOTA JUSTICE RESEARCH CENTER, ACTIVISTS LIKE NEKIMA LEVY ARMSTRONG, WE NEED TO STAY IN THIS WORK AND VIGILANT AND TO SUPPORT THE WORK OF THE POLICE AND DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES.

>> Cathy: ALWAYS A PLEASURE,