>> PROBABLY.

♪♪♪ >> Cathy: TONIGHT WE HAVE FILLED THE COUCH WITH NEARLY 50 YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE.

I KNOW, AMAZING, ISN'T IT?

THIS ESTEEMED GROUP OF RETIRING LAWMAKERS IS HERE TO LOOK BACK, SHARE SOME STORIES AND PERHAPS OFFER A WORD OF WISDOM TO COLLEAGUES THEY ARE LEAVING BEHIND.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT, REP. PAT GAROFALO FROM FARMINGTON HAS BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR TWO DECADES.

REP. ANNE NEU BRINDLEY HAILS FROM NORTH BRANCH AND IS IN HER FOURTH TERM.

DEMOCRATS WITH US TONIGHT, REP. JAMIE BECKER-FINN OF ROSEVILLE ALSO FINISHING HER FOURTH TERM.

ROUNDING OUT THE GROUP, MINNEAPOLIS REP. FRANK HORNSTEIN, WHOSE YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE SERVICE CLOCKS IN AT 22.

WELCOME, ONE AND ALL.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

YOU LOOK VERY RESTED AND REFRESHED I HAVE TO SAY.

>> FEELING GOOD.

>> NOW, WE ALL WATCHED YOUR FAREWELL SPEECHES, EXCEPT REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO, YOU DID NOT DO A FAREWELL SPEECH.

WE WERE SHOCKED.

WE WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

>> WELL, I TOLD YOU GUYS BEFORE IF SPORTS GAMBLING DIDN'T PASS THEN I WAS GOING TO RUN FOR REELECTION SO WHY WOULD I GIVE A REQUIREMENT SPEECH?

I'M FULL OF IT, I'M NOT RUNNING AGAIN.

>> Cathy: OKAY, GOOD, I WAS GOING TO SAY.

HAD YOU TAKEN THE MIC, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE SAID?

>> I WOULD HAVE SAID IN REAL LIFE WE GO OUT AND GO TO NEW PLACES AND ATTEMPT NEW EXPERIENCES, TRY NEW FOODS TO HAVE NEW EXPERIENCES.

LEGISLATORS NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF INTERACTING WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, NOT TO BE TRANSACTIONAL OR HELP PASS THINGS, BUT YOU WILL HAVE SO MUCH MORE OF A RICHER AND DEEPER LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE.

IF YOU'RE IN BERLIN AND SHARE A BEER WITH REPRESENTATIVE FRANK HORNSTEIN OR TOUR THE WELLSTONE PLANE CRASH SITE WITH FORMER REPRESENTATIVES LAUREN SOLBERG AND DENISE DIETR DEET.

THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN AS MUCH AS IT USED TO.

>> Eric: YOU TALKED ABOUT A QUOTE YOU HEARD FROM GENE WAGENIUS, OU GOT TO SAY IT 100 TIMES BEFORE SOMEBODY LISTENS.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> FOR ME TOO I'M THE ONLY ONE HERE ON THE COUCH HO'S A MEMBER OF THE POCI CAUCUS AND QUEER CAUCUS AND I DO THINK THE EXPERIENCES ARE DIFFERENT.

AND THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A QUOTE, ADVICE GIVEN TO ME BY GENE WAGENIUS AT A TIME WHEN THERE WERE MUCH FEWER WOMEN SERVING IN THE LEGISLATURE.

AND SO I TOOK THAT REALLY SERIOUSLY.

>> Eric: NOW, YOU TWO TALKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND IT'S A PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.

CAN YOU KIND OF SHARE ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, WELL, ERIC, THE LEGISLATURE IS INHERENTLY RELATIONAL.

WE'RE ALL TOGETHER FOR MANY MANY MONTHS WORKING ON SOYING PROBLEMS TOGETHER, AND SO IT'S, AS REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO SAID, IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT EVEN WHEN ONE DISAGREES, TO BUILD THAT RELATIONSHIP AND I FEEL THAT THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE MOST ENRICHING PARTS OF THE WORK FOR ME.

>> Eric: THIS PLACE IS ABOUT PEOPLE, THAT WAS YOUR QUOTE FROM YOUR SPEECH.

>> YEAH, AND I WOULD SAY I MEAN THE RICHEST EXPERIENCES THAT I HAVE HAD IN THE LEGISLATURE -- IT'S BEEN EVERYBODY SAYING BUT THE RICHEST EXPERIENCES I HAD WERE SOLVING DIFFICULT PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY AGREE WITH, AND PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I THINK I HAD WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES WITH ATHENA HOLLINS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE TWO PEOPLE FURTHER APART ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

>> Eric: SHE DID A THROW PILLOW FOR YOU.

>> IT WAS A LITTLE PIECE OF EMBROIDERY, A LITTLE STITCHERY WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST THOUGHTFUL GIFTS I'VE EVER RECEIVED IN MY LIFE.

>> Cathy: I THINK THIS IS LOVELY TO HEAR Y'ALL TALKING ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND GETTING ALONG.

BUT THEN WHY ARE Y'ALL AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS?

AS YOU LOOK AT SOMETIMES FLOOR SESSIONS.

I MEAN, AND ESPECIALLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE SENATE, BY THE WAY?

I MEAN, YOU ALL ARE, WE'RE USED TO WATCHING THROW FOOD SOMETIMES DURING YOUR FLOOR SESSIONS, BUT THE SENATE THIS LAST SESSION, HOLY MOLY, WHAT HAPPENED THIS?

WHAT'S WITH THIS RANCOR?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY AND WE SEE THAT SOCIETY IS MUCH MORE COARSE, MUCH MORE POLERRIZED ESPECIALLY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, PEOPLE GET THEIR OWN INFORMATION BUBBLES AND REALLY ARE CONSTRUCTED ALTERNATE REALITIES.

NO ONE SHOULD BE SURPRISED THE SENATE SCREWED THINGS UP, RIGHT?

OVER A TEN-YEAR PERIOD THE HOUSE IS ON THE BALLOT EVERY TWO YEARS.

THE SENATE, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THERE ARE TWO ELECTION CYCLES OVER TEN YEARS WHERE THEY'RE NOT ON THE BALLOT.

AND IT IS A LAW OF POLITICAL SCIENCE IN MINNESOTA THAT THE MINNESOTA STATE SENATE WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON THE BALLOT WILL SCREW THINGS UP FOR THE MAJORITY PARTY IN THE HOUSE.

IT'S JUST A -- SO YOU SAW THAT THIS YEAR WHERE THE HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY -- WELL, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE AGENDA THE D.F.L.

WAS PASSING THEY WERE ON TRACK TO MOVE THINGS.

IT WAS THE SENATE THAT STARTED CAUSING PROBLEMS AND REALLY WAS THE GENESIS OF EVERYTHING BLOWING UP AT THE END OF SESSION.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT THE GREATER DIVERSITY OF THE HOUSE IN PARTICULAR?

YOU MENTIONED THE CAUCUSES YOU'RE PART OF.

IT REALLY HAS CHANGED FROM NOT EVEN THAT LONG AGO REALLY.

>> ABSOLUTELY, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND I THINK IT'S EVEN BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE NORMALIZED, PEOPLE SHARING THEIR EXPERIENCES OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

BUT I WILL SAY WITH THE SOCIAL MEDIA I THINK IS A BIG CHANGE WHERE I GUESS I DON'T KNOW IF THIS S THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHER PEOPLE BUT I MEAN, I EXPERIENCE DEATH THREATS, THREATS AGAINST MY SAFETY THROUGHOUT MY TERM IN OFFICE OFFICE.

I THINK THE VERY FIRST SPEECH I GAVE ON THE FIRST FLOOR I HAD THREATS AGAINST MY KIDS AND FAMILY BECAUSE OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY KIDS AND FAMILY.

AND SO I THINK THAT ELEMENT OF IT CHANGES WHAT THE WORK IS LIKE AND CHANGES HOW TOXIC IT IS AND THE TOLL THAT IT TAKES ON US AS PEOPLE TO SERVE AS WELL.

AND WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOUR COLLEAGUE MIGHT SAY SOMETHING TO SET SOMETHING OFF, TO POST SOMETHING ON TWITTER, IT'S PRETTY HARD TO WORK WITH THAT PERSON MOVING FORWARD.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU GOTTEN SOME OF THAT WITH THE ISRAEL-PALESTINE BUSINESS?

>> NOT SO MUCH ON THAT, BUT SOME OF THE HIGH INTENSITY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, GUNS, ABORTION, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

BUT I'M NOT ON TWITTER, IT'S JUST MORE TECHNOLOGY THAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

SO I'VE SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, ESCAPED SOME OF THAT TOXICITY.

>> Eric: CAN I TELL A STORY?

I HEARD IT FROM SOMEBODY ON THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE.

YOU SAID, REPRESENTATIVE NEU BRINDLEY, DON'T CRITICIZE MY BILL, I'LL GET YOU A HIGHWAY.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> CLOSE, THAT WAS CLOSE.

>> Eric: HIGHWAY 8, TAYLORS FALLS.

>> I TOLD FRANK, HE CAME TO ME AND SAID LISTEN, I'M GIVING YOU SOME MONEY, WILL YOU BE NICE?

I SAID, FRANK, IF YOU PAY FOR MY ROAD I WON'T SAY A THING ON YOUR BILL.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Cathy: THIS IS HOW LAWMAKING IS DONE SOMETIMES, RIGHT?

>> JUST IT WAS A GOOD AND NEEDED.

>> I SENT FRANK A NOTE ABOUT A FATAL ACCIDENT THAT HAPPENED A FEW MONTHS AGO.

>> IT WAS A SOLID SAFETY PROJECT.

I THINK THERE WERE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT WANTED IT.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN MENTIONED THE TOXICITY, THOUGH, AND YOU MENTIONED SOCIAL MEDIA.

I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, AND ERIC AND I SOMETIMES TALK ABOUT THIS, HOW MUCH FUN WE HAD COVERING THE LEGISLATURE WHEN WE WERE THERE.

HAS IT LOST ITS FUN?

I MEAN, IS IT -- IS IT NOT AS FUN AS IT WAS?

>> URDAHL SAID THAT IN HIS SPEECH.

>> WELL, I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS ES.

BUT AGAIN THIS IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY.

AND BY THE WAY I FORGOT, WHENEVER I'M ON I ALWAYS SAY, CATHY, ERIC, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Eric: YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> Cathy: WE KNOW THAT.

>> NO, BECAUSE OF THE COARSENESS OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY THAT HAS LEAKED INTO THE POLITICS AND THE REALITY IS THAT EXTREMISM IS ON THE MARCH RIGHT NOW AND IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LOT OF YEARS, IT'S EASY FOR ME TO CALL OUT EXTREMISTS ON THE LEFT BUT THE REALITY IS MY PARTY HAS A PROBLEM WITH IT TOO.

AND WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE YES HIGHLIGHTING PROBLEMS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE BUT ALSO SHINING A LIGHT ON THEIR OWN PARTY AND THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: JUDICIARY BUDGET.

YOU'RE ON PUBLIC AFETY.

DEMOCRATS AND CRIME.

WHAT DO YOU GOT?

>> WE SPENT MORE MONEY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT AND VICTIM SERVICES -- I MEAN, IT WAS THE BIGGEST BUDGET THAT WE'VE SPENT ON PUBLIC SAFETY IN 2023.

SO I THINK WE HAVE AN AMAZING CHAIR ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE, I THINK KELLY MOLLER'S PARTICULARLY EFFECTIVE AT WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE, PARTICULARLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK ALSO US WOMEN SERVING TOGETHER I THINK REPRESENTATIVE RARICK AND CHAIR MOLLER WORK ESPECIALLY WELL TOGETHER.

BUT, AGAIN, THE SENATE GETS IN THE WAY.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT DO Y'ALL, AS YOU LEAVE, THERE'S ALWAYS ISSUES, YOU'VE WORKED ON TONS OF ISSUES, OBVIOUSLY.

I THINK I KNOW WHAT REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO'S GOING TO SAY, BUT I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU, WHAT DID YOU EAVE BEHIND THAT YOU REALLY WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, YOU KNOW, TO THIS CONVERSATION ACTUALLY ON POLARIZATION, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US MOVE AWAY FROM BEING A CAUCUS STATE ELECTING OUR CANDIDATES, AND IS I'D LIKE TO SEE US MOVE TO BEING A PRIMARY STATE.

I THINK THAT -- I MEAN, IT DOESN'T SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS BUT I THINK A LARGER POOL OF VOTERS SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHO OUR CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO BE.

>> Cathy: MAYBE YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE CHANGED THAT AT THE LEGISLATURE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE HORNSTEIN, WHAT DID YOU LEAVE BEHIND ON THE TABLE THAT YOU WANTED TO FINISH?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORK WE NEED TO DO ON HATE CRIMES AND BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY NOW, IT'S AN ISSUE THAT I'VE WORKED ON.

I'M VERY HAPPY THAT WE PASSED THE HISTORIC TRANSPORTATION BILL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS 20 YEARS IN THE MAKING.

AND WE GOT THAT DONE LAST YEAR, ADDED A LITTLE TO IT THIS YEAR AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT AND LEAVING ON A GOOD NOTE THERE.

>> SO OBVIOUSLY, 14-HOUR DEBATE WE HAD ON THE SAFE STORAGE BILL AND THE GUEST YOU HAD ON EARLIER TONIGHT, FIREARM SAFE STORAGE WAS SOMETHING I'VE WORKED ON FOR MANY YEARS, AND BUT FOR THE SENATE MAYBE COULD HAVE GOTTEN TO THE GOVERNOR THIS YEAR, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE FOLKS WHO WILL CARRY ON THAT WORK.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT MINNESOTA'S COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN COLLABORATING AND COOPERATING TOGETHER BETTER.

THAT'S WHAT OUR SECRET SAUCE HAS BEEN FOR YEARS AND YOU LOOK BACK AT THE EDUCATION REFORMS OF THE LATE 1980s WHERE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS INITIATED CHARTER SCHOOLS AND AS WELL AS OPEN ENROLLMENT, AND I HAD ALWAYS HOPED THAT MINNESOTA COULD KIND OF FOLLOW IN THAT TRADITION AND UNFORTUNATELY THE POLARIZATION AND THE EXTREMISM HAS SEEPED INTO THE EDUCATION ARENA SO NOW WE'RE SEEING DECLINING RESULTS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE WOULD ALL BENEFIT FROM HAVING A MORE BALANCED GOVERNMENT AND AVING THAT COOPERATION COME BACK.

AGAIN, WE ARE A COLD STATE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, AND HE ONLY WAY WE CAN REALLY OUTCOMPETE OUR COMPETITORS WE CAN'T BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE, OR WE CAN'T BE THE LARGEST BUT WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN COOPERATE AND WORK TOGETHER BETTER AND THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE IN THE EDUCATION REFORM ARENA THERE'S A HUGE GAP BETWEEN HERE WE'RE AT AND WHERE WE COULD BE.

>> Eric: YOU'LL FOCUS ON THE COFFEE SHOP, OR?

>> HA, NO.

I MEAN, YES, WILL CONTINUE TO RUN MY COFFEE SHOP BUT HOPING TO GET BACK INTO THE LEGAL WORLD AS AN ATTORNEY.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOUR POST-LEGISLATIVE PLANS?

>> WELL, I TEACH A CLASS T HE U OF M. I WANT TO CONTINUE TEACHING AND CONTINUE WORKING ON THE ISSUES THAT I CARE DEEPLY ABOUT.

CLIMATE, TRANSPORTATION, BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

>> I'M IN THE PROCESS OF FIGURING THAT OUT.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SORT OF MY CALCULATION WITH RETIRING FROM THE LEGISLATURE WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M TOO YOUNG TO RETIRE FROM THE LEGISLATURE, I'M NOT GOING TO BE A LIFER, I'M NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR 20 YEARS, GOD BLESS YOU, FRANK.

AND FRANKLY I THINK ESPECIALLY AS WOMEN THERE COMES A POINT WHERE WE START GETTING TOO OLD TO MOVE ONTO SOMETHING ELSE.

SO I'M AT THAT CROSSROADS AND I GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT IS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

>> Cathy: AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING.

>> I'M A NETWORK ENGINEER IN MY PRIVATE SECTOR JOB.

BUT RIGHT NOW I'M GOING TO GET ON A CRUISE AND WITH MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE JULIE, THAT'S MY PLAN.

>> Eric: FRIDAY NIGHTS, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT EXCITED, BUT THE REST OF YOU CAN COME BACK AND VISIT ON FRIDAY NIGHT ON A PANEL.

>> IT'S NOT WORK FOR US.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: