♪♪ >> CATHY: TODAY GOVERNOR WALZ ANNOUNCED A NEW HEAD TO COMBAT FRAUD, A BALLOONING ISSUE FOR THE GOVERNOR AND THE STATE.

HERE TO UNPACK THAT AND MORE IS THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL.

DFLERS WITH US TONIGHT: KARLA BIGHAM IS A FORMER STATE LAWMAKER, SERVING IN BOTH LEGISLATIVE CHAMBERS.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER SENATE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER, NOW A LEGISLATIVE LOBBYIST.

JOINING THEM ARE REPUBLICANS.

FRITZ KNAAK IS ANOTHER FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW AN ATTORNEY IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

NEW THIS WEEK ON OUR PANEL IS EMILY NOVOTNY CHANCE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN AND LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT IN THE STATE SENATE.

SHE IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF MINNESOTA YOUNG REPUBLICANS AND THE YOUNGEST NATIONAL REPUBLICAN COMMITTEEWOMAN IN THE COUNTRY.

EMILY, WELCOME.

>> WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: NICE TO HAVE OU HERE.

YOU SAW THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF CANDIDATES.

THERE'S ANOTHER PERSON, MIKE LINDELL, WHO JUST ENTERED THE RACE ESTERDAY.

WHAT'S THE WORD ON HIM?

ARE FOLKS EXCITED?

>> I THINK IT'S AN EXCITING TIME TO BE A REPUBLICAN IN MINNESOTA.

I'M SURE THE MOST QUALIFIED WILL COME TO THE TOP.

>> YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT MIKE LINDELL, TAKE A SWING AT THAT AS WELL?

>> I THINK EVERYONE'S WELCOME TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

>> Cathy: FRITZ KNAAK.

>> I'M NOT NEARLY THAT DIP EDIPLOMATIC.

THE ONES THAT CAN SHOW UP -- WALZ SHOULD BE VERY VULNERABLE.

AND WOULD BE FOR A CANDIDATE THAT CAN RAISE 5, $6 MILLION.

SO THE REAL QUESTION IS GOING TO BE FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING FOR THE REAL CANDIDATE, IS WHICH ONE OF THAT CROWD CAN DO THAT.

AND THAT THINS UT THE GROUP PRETTY QUICKLY.

I LIKE THEM ALL.

THEY'RE ALL REPUBLICANS.

YOU'LL NEVER HEAR ME SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT ANY OF THEM.

SO I'LL GIVE YOU THAT.

BUT THERE'S MAYBE A COUPLE OF THEM THERE THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO POSITION THEMSELVES TO BE THAT CANDIDATE.

>> Eric: YOU'RE SUBURBAN AND EXURBAN.

AND I WONDER, IS THERE OPPORTUNITY FOR REPUBLICANS THERE?

THEY NEED TO FIND VOTES BEYOND THE REPUBLICAN HARD CORE.

>> THEY DO, BUT I THINK TO QUOTE A GOOD FRIEND, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND FRIEND OF THIS PROGRAM, PAT GAROFALO, SAID HE'D RATHER HAVE SCURVY THAN SEE MIKE LINDELL OR THE COWBOYS WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

SO THAT IS HOW SERIOUS OUR FRIEND PAT IS ON THIS.

IT'S GOING TO BE A COMPETITIVE YEAR NEXT YEAR.

IT ALWAYS IS.

EVERYBODY'S GOING TO COME UP, YOU KNOW, READY TO DELIVER THEIR MESSAGE.

AND I THINK IT'S A LITTLE EARLY WITH ALL THE CANDIDATES IN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE TO START TRYING TO HANDICAP A CASE THAT IS QUITE -- THERE'S A LOT OF GAME LEFT TO LAY.

>> Eric: GOVERNOR WALZ HAS APPOINTED A P PAW APPOINTMENT, TIM O'MALLEY TO BE THE ANTIFRAUD CZAR.

WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO?

>> I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

I'VE TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT.

WHEN YOU GET YOURSELF IN THESE SITUATIONS, YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S CREDIBLE, THAT'S SMART, THAT HAS A HISTORY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SO I THINK WHAT, FIRST OF ALL, THEY WILL DO IS BE ACCOUNTABLE AND THE FIRST THING HE SAID THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY GOOD WAS HE SAID HE REPORTS TO THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, NOT TO THE GOVERNOR.

WHICH SIGNALED THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO BE POLITICAL ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

HE WAS GOING TO ROOT IT OUT.

THEY HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF FOLKS THAT CAN HELP THEM START TO PREVENT IT.

BUT I APPLAUD THE GOVERNOR FOR GETTING SOMEBODY THAT NECESSARILY WASN'T IN HIS PARTY.

>> Cathy: TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE?

>> I THINK IT'S WAY TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

$1 BILLION IN FRAUD.

AND NOW THE GOVERNOR DECIDES TO PAY ATTENTION BECAUSE IT'S A NATIONAL ISSUE?

HE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS YEARS AGO.

IT'S LIKE ASKING THE MAN WHO SET YOUR HOUSE ON FIRE TO PUT IT OUT.

HE IS NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE THIS ISSUE.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT.

BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE WERE DOING AND OFTEN HOW IT GOES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE CROOKS OFTEN ARE AHEAD OF LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THIS ISSUE.

SO I THINK IT'S TAKEN A BIT OF TIME.

YOU CAN'T SAY HE'S NOT DOING SOMETHING, THAT'S KIND OF A HAMSTER WHEEL -- >> WELL, ACTUALLY, YOU CAN SAY THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR, BECAUSE IT IS TOO LATE.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW HE DIGS HIMSELF OUT OF THIS HOLE.

AND SOMETHING THAT ODDLY ENOUGH DIDN'T GET ENOUGH A LOT OF PRESS COVERAGE IN THIS STATE BUT DID IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" WERE THE 400 STATE EMPLOYEES WHO SAID WE REALLY DON'T FEEL LIKE BEING BLAMED FOR THIS, SO THEY DID A RELEASE AND THEY LAID IT RIGHT ON THE LAP OF WALZ.

THEY SAID HE KNEW ABOUT IT TWO YEARS AGO.

THEY DON'T WANT ANY PART OF BEING BLAMED FOR IT AND HE NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THESE ARE STATE EMPLOYEES AND IT WAS CONSIDERED IMPORTANT ENOUGH NEWS TO SHOW UP IN THE NEW YORK NEWSPAPERS BUT APPARENTLY NOT HERE.

BUT THAT TELLS ME THAT THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN REALLY BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE A WHILE AND HE HAS CHOSE EVERYONE EEN OT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

>> I THINK TIM O'MALLEY, WHEN I WAS IN THE HOUSE, I WORKED WITH HIM, AND HE'S A FANTASTIC GUY, VERY CAPE BIBLE, VERY PROFESSIONAL.

I HOPE THAT WHATEVER IS DISCOVERED, FOUND, THROUGH THE RESEARCH THAT HE HAS -- THAT HE'S GOING TO DO, THAT IT LEADS TO PASSING SENATOR GUSTAFSON'S BIPARTISAN BILL ON THE O.I.G., THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL.

>> Eric: PASSED THE SENATE, DIED IN THE HOUSE.

>> YES, THAT WILL HAVE LONGEVITY, THAT WILL TRANSCEND ADMINISTRATIONS AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC CAN TRUST IN BECAUSE THAT IS ULTIMATELY WHAT IS BROKEN.

AND SO I APPLAUD THE MOVE.

I THINK IT'S GREAT.

IT'S ON TOP OF WHAT HE'S ALREADY DONE, THE GOVERNOR, AND THE BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN PASSED IN THE LAST SESSION, THEY STILL HAVE MORE WORK TO O.

>> Cathy: SAY, ANOTHER TOPIC HERE.

WE BROUGHT THIS UP A LITTLE BIT LAST FRIDAY.

BUT SENATOR ABELER SPOKE OUT AGAINST SOME OF THE RHETORIC THAT WE'RE HEARING, ESPECIALLY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

WROTE A LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT.

I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY WE AREN'T HEARING FROM OTHER REPUBLICANS ON THIS?

ABOUT THE RHETORIC?

>> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO HAVE SELECTIVE FOCUS ON THAT RHETORIC WHEN GOVERNOR WALZ IS CALLING REPUBLICANS NAZIS AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS ALSO CALLING US GARBAGE.

>> Cathy: SO -- BUT CAN YOU EXPAND A LITTLE MORE ON THAT?

>> I CAN'T SPEAK TO EVERYTHING THE PRESIDENT SAYS, BUT I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THERE WAS NO OUTRAGE FROM THE LEFT WHEN WE WERE CALLED GARBAGE BY PRESIDENT BIDEN OR GOVERNOR WALZ CALLED US NAZIS.

>> SO I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE.

YOU'RE DOING PRETTY GOOD ON YOUR FIRST TIME OF NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION.

WELL, NO, IT'S THE TRUTH.

WHAT HAPPENED, THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T LIKE THE RHETORIC THAT WAS COMING OUT OF DEMOCRATS, RIGHT?

AND SO I APPLAUD SENATOR ABELER.

HE'S A FRIEND, BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME.

YOU ALSO SEE MORE CANDIDATES KIND OF COMING FORWARD TO SAY THAT THAT RHETORIC WASN'T WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, IT'S TIME TO PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN, SENATOR ABELER DID THAT AND NOBODY ELSE IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS DID.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT ABELER DID THAT.

I THINK THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE WHETHER A FEW MORE REPUBLICANS SAY THAT.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENED EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM IS WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED.

WHICH IS OU'RE GOING TO NEED SOME REALLY ANGRY PEOPLE IN THE SOMALI COMMUNITY TO STAND UP AND SAY, THAT'S NOT US, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ANGRY ABOUT IT.

WE'RE THE -- I LIKE THE COMMENT, HE PROBABLY DIDN'T LIKE HAVING TO SAY IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THE VICTIMS IN US TOO.

THOSE ARE OUR KIDS THAT WEREN'T GETTING FED AND GET SOME EOPLE TO ACTUALLY SHOW UP AND BE JEN WEBINARLY ANGRY AT BEING LABELS A BUNCH OF CROOKS.

THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

>> OH, NO, IT IS.

>> MAYBE WE READ DIFFERENT PAPERS.

MAYBE WE'RE IN DIFFERENT CIRCLES, BUT I HEARD PLENTY OF SOMALI LEADERS, ELECTEDS AND OTHERS AND PEOPLE THAT DELIVERED SERVICES THAT AID THIS ISN'T US.

BUT THE FOLKS THAT I TALK TO, I'VE HEARD THEM SAY THAT LOUDLY.

>> THAT'S AN ECHO CHAMBER EFFECT IN MY OPINION.

A LOT OF THOSE SAME PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE DEMOCRATS THAT AREN'T KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

AND THAT'S WHO HAS TO HEAR THIS -- [Overlapping conversations] >> AND PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE SOMALI COMMUNITY NEED TO STEP UP AND SAY IT'S NOT OKAY TO SAY THAT.

IT'S NOT TRUE.

AND NO GROUP OF PEOPLE, CITIZENS, HUMAN BEINGS, ARE GARAGE.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE AND IT SHOULD NOT BE NORMALIZED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> BUT IF PEOPLE NEED TO BE ANGRY ABOUT ANYTHING IT'S THE FRAUD.

AND -- >> FROM TRUMP?

YEP.

>> THE FRAUD HAVING TO DO WITH WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE.

THE BILLION -- ACTUALLY, IT'S PROBABLY CLOSER TO 5 BILLION NOW.

PEOPLE SHOULD BE MAD ABOUT THAT -- [Overlapping conversations] >> EXCUSE ME, BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT SAYS THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE INFLATED.

FRITZ, YOU JUST SAID $5 BILLION.

NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT.

>> YEAH, THEY HAVE.

>> THEY JUST DID SOMETHING IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE" TODAY THAT SAID THERE'S ABOUT 225 MILLION.

BUT TODAY THAT $5 BILLION ADDS TO THE RHETORIC THAT GETS PEOPLE UPSET THAT THEN ALLOWS PEOPLE TO THINK THAT IT'S OKAY FOR ARMED VIGILANTES OR WHAT LOOKS LIKE THEM TO TAKE PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS EVEN IF THEY'RE UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

>> AT WHAT POINT IS FRAUD UNACCEPTABLE?

>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE, BUT YOU CAN'T INFLATE IT.

>> IT'S NOT BEING INFLATED.

THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY DESERVE CREDIT ARE THE FOLKS AT CHANNEL 11.

THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR TWO YEARS NOW.

EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BEEN IGNORING.

>> AND ALPHA NEWS.

>> BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT HAT WE CALL THE MAINSTREAM.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT TWO TO THREE.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALISTIC.

>> WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE ABOUT THE FRAUD AND THE MOST CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION THAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY FROM BITCOIN TO MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S CONFLICT, LITERALLY, MAKING SURE THERE'S CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN, YOU KNOW, TRANSACTIONS WITH HIS CHILDREN.

>> OVERSEAS, RIGHT.

>> AND PASSING BILLS THAT ARE HALF A MILLION DOLLAR PAYOUTS TO SENATORS FOR SETTLEMENTS FOR THE JANUARY 6TH, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS.

>> WELL, KARLA, THIS ORANGE MAN, ORANGE MAN, ORANGE MAN RESPONSE WE ALWAYS GET FROM THE DEMOCRATS IS GASLIGHTING.

>> IT IS FACT.

[Overlapping conversations] >> NO, THAT'S NOT GASLIGHTING.

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS REAL.

>> Cathy: IT'S INTERESTING TO LISTEN TO YOU ALL AND I'M WONDERING THIS.

WE KNOW THE MEMORIAL, THAT SPEAKER ORTMAN WILL BE UP NEXT SESSION, AND HER PHOTO AND HER DESK AND THE FLOWERS AS A REMINDER FOR OLKS TO COOL IT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF HAT'S ABLE TO HAPPEN.

WHAT TO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK SO.

I MEAN, BUT I MEAN, YOU -- I DON'T WANT TO MISTAKE ME GETTING A LITTLE EXCITED AS INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC.

IT'S JUST THE ABILITY TO SAY I HAVE TO TELL THE TRUTH AND IF SOMETIMES I HAVE TO TURN UP THE VOLUME A LITTLE BIT JUST SO THAT YOU CAN HEAR IT, THAT'S OKAY.

BUT I DON'T DISLIKE ANY OF THESE FOLKS AND I WOULD HOPE THAT WE'RE NOT DEMONSTRATING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE DOING THE KIND OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO REPRESENTATIVE HORTMAN OR SENATOR HOFFMAN.

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

AND EVERY SINGLE THING THAT COMES OUT OF THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE AND IS SIGNED BY GOVERNOR WALZ IS BIPARTISAN, RIGHT?

SO THEY NEED EACH OTHER.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE PEOPLE NEED TO GET REFOCUSED AND RECENTERED ON.

>> Eric: ONLY 11 MONTHS UNTIL THE ELECTION.

THANKS, GUYS.

EMILY, NICE JOB.

THANK