' ' >> ERIC: IT'S OUR FINAL SHOW OF 2025, AND WE HAVE A FULL HOUR AHEAD.

PAUL DOUGLAS IS HERE WITH A HOLIDAY SEASON FORECAST.

LARRY JACOBS WILL BREAK DOWN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NATIONAL ADDRESS.

WE'LL TALK WITH AN IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY ABOUT ONGOING I.C.E.

RAIDS IN MINNESOTA.

D.E.E.D.

COMMISSIONER STOPS BY TO EXPLAIN THE NEW FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE POLICY STARTING JANUARY 1.

>> CATHY: WE START TONIGHT WITH MORE ARRESTS IN THE ONGOING FRAUD INVESTIGATION INTO THE MINNESOTA HUMAN SERVICES HOUSING STABILIZATION PROGRAM.

ON THURSDAY, U.S.

ATTORNEY JOE THOMPSON ANNOUNCED CHARGES RELATING TO MEDICAID CLAIMS DATING BACK TO 2018.

THOMPSON SAID "THE FRAUD IS STAGGERING."

AND ESTIMATED MORE THAN HALF OF $18 BILLION PAID OUT TO 14 PROGRAMS COULD BE TIED TO FRAUD.

A.J.

LAGOE IS A REPORTER FOR KARE-11 AND PART OF THE INVESTIGATIVE TEAM THAT HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE STORY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

WELCOME BACK.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: WHAT IS IT, 393 MILLION OR A BILLION IN FRAUD, SEEMS LIKE IT'S A MOVING TARGET.

>> I HAVEN'T WORRIED ABOUT AN EXACT NUMBER.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS JUST IN NUMBERS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS WRONG.

THE MONEY IS MASSIVE, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, WHETHER IT'S HALF A BILLION, 3 BILLION, OR 9 BILLION, AT THAT LEVEL, HE OPPORTUNITIES THE STATE HAS MISSED TO HELP PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT, WHILE, INSTEAD, JUST LINING THE POCKETS OF FRAUDSTERS, THE OPPORTUNITY COST IS JUST MASSIVE.

>> Cathy: HELP US OUT HERE, TOO, AJ, IT SEEMS THAT OTHER STATES DON'T HAVE THE MAGNITUDE OF THE FRAUD THAT WE HAVE.

SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH OUR SYSTEM THAT IT SEEMS TO BE SO EASY TO GAME?

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS NO FACT CHECKING, THERE WAS NO OVERSIGHT ON THESE NEW PROGRAMS.

IN MINNESOTA, WE'RE A GENEROUS STATE.

WE WANT TO HELP PEOPLE IN THE DAWN OF LIFE, IN THE DUSK OF LIFE, AND THE SHADOWS OF LIFE, RIGHT?

AND A LOT OF MONEY WAS PUT INTO NEW PROGRAMS THAT WERE PASSED BY THE LEGISLATURE, LAUNCHED QUICKLY, AND THEY PUSHED MONEY OUT THE DOOR.

AND IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ANYONE WAS FACT BE CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THAT MONEY WAS GOING WHERE IT WASES SUPPOSED TO BE GOING.

>> Eric: LABELS ARE ALWAYS TOUGH, BUT IS THIS SOME SORT OF ORGANIZED CRIME?

>> IT IS CERTAINLY ORGANIZED IN THAT YOU SEE GROUPS WORKING TOGETHER, BUSINESSES WITH DIFFERENT NAMES, OORDINATED AND ONE IS DOING PART OF THE FRAUD AND, YOU KNOW, FORGING A RECORD THAT ALLOWS ANOTHER COMPANY TO BILL MASSIVE AMOUNTS.

AND, SO, TO SAY IT'S ORGANIZED IS CERTAINLY FAIR.

AND ONE THING THAT'S BEEN TELLING JUST THIS WEEK AS AN EXAMPLE, I STARTED LOOKING AT ONE COMPANY THAT PROVIDES INTEGRATED COMMUNITY SUPPORTS.

AND AS WE STARTED LOOKING AT THEM, WE STARTED REALIZING THE OWNERS OF THIS ICS COMPANY ALSO HAVE AN ARMS COMPANY, ADULT REHA BILL ACTIVE HEALTH SERVICES, AND THEY HAVE AN AUTISM CENTER AND THEY HAVE A TRANSPORT COMPANY AND THEY HAD A HOUSING STABILIZATION COMPANY AND YOU START TO SEE WHY YOU HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT WAYS OF BILLING MEDICAID.

IT RAISES MAJOR RED FLAGS WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT IT.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT Mr.

THOMPSON WAS SAYING WHEN HE STARTS SAYING, THERE'S SO MANY THREADS AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE POTENTIAL FOR THIS TO GO INTO THE BILLIONS.

>> Cathy: SO, BY THE WAY, YOUR MIC WE DON'T THINK IS WORKING VERY WELL SO WE'RE GOING TO PUT A MIC ON YOU THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Cathy: AND WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT ATTORNEY THOMPSON SAID YESTERDAY, THURSDAY, SO THEN IS IT CLEAR THAT THERE ARE OTHER SHOES THAT WILL BE DROPPING, OTHER PROGRAMS THAT COULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS?

>> IT'S VERY CLEAR THERE'S GOING TO BE OTHER SHOES DROPPING.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A NUMBER OF MORE INDICTMENTS AND ARRESTS.

THEY'VE DESCRIBED IT AS COMING IN WAVES.

AND JUST -- THEY'VE NOW CHARGED ABOUT 13 PEOPLE JUST IN THE HOUSING STABILIZATION.

MANY OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN PROFILED IN OUR KARE-11 INVESTIGATIONS, AND THEY'RE STILL JUST THE TIP OF THE ICE BERKS THERE'S SO MANY MORE THAT WE'VE SEEN THROUGH OUR REPORTING, WE KNOW THERE'S LIKELY CHARGES COMING.

AND THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE U.S.

ATTORNEY SAID THE OTHER DAY.

>> Eric: FRAUD TOURISM INDUSTRY.

>> YEAH, RIGHT, DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE TOURISM BOARD WAS LOOKING TO SELL -- >> Eric: WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> Cathy: I THINK PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED BY THAT.

>> YEAH, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE, PEOPLE IN OTHER STATES, IN THIS CASE, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA, FLEW IN, REGISTERED A COMPANY, FLEW HOME, STARTED BILLING.

AND AS THE U.S.

ATTORNEY SAID, EASY MONEY.

THEY JUST TOOK MONEY OUT OF MINNESOTA'S COFFERS WHILE ALLEGEDLY, IN THIS CASE, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN CONVICTED, DOING NO WORK.

>> Cathy: SO THERE'S NOW A NEW FRAUD CZAR, FOR WANT OF A BETTER TERM.

AND I'M WONDERING, DO YOU THINK THE STATE -- DOES IT LOOK TO YOU AS IF THE STATE IS STARTING TO CLEAN UP THIS MESS?

>> I THINK THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THE STATE IN THIS MOMENT AND NOW IS TAKING THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.

THE NEW INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR DHS SEEMS TO BE TAKING IT SERIOUSLY.

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER FOR DHS SEEMS TO BE TAKING THIS VERY SERIOUSLY.

YOU KNOW, YOU AND I WERE IN A PRESS CONFERENCE THE OTHER DAY WHERE WE WERE PUSHING GOVERNOR WALZ ON, LOOK, THE FORMER COMMISSIONER SAT AT THE CAPITOL AND THIS YEAR, LAST JANUARY, TOLD SENATORS, THERE'S MORE RUMORS OF FRAUD THAN THERE IS ACTUAL FRAUD.

AND WHEN WE PUSHED THE GOVERNOR ON THAT, HE SAID, WELL, THAT COMMISSIONER IS NO LONGER HERE AND YOU CAN READ INTO THE ACCOUNTABILITY ASPECT ON THAT.

>> Eric: WELL, THE PLOT THICKENS.

>> IT CERTAINLY DOES.

>> Eric: GLAD YOU CAME OVER.

CONGRATULATIONS ON GREAT STUFF.