OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL TALK ABOUT INFLATION AND JOBS, HOW CORPORATIONS ARE ADDRESSING NEW ABORTION LAWS, AND WE'LL INTRODUCE YOU TO THE HOST OF THE AMERICA OUTDOORS SERIES THAT WAS CREATED FOR PBS RIGHT HERE IN MINNESOTA.

ALL THAT AND A VISIT TO A MINNESOTA AURORA SOCCER GAME.

THAT'S ALL NEXT ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> ERIC: GOOD EVENING.

CATHY HAS THE NIGHT OFF.

WE HAVE A FULL LINEUP TONIGHT, INCLUDING EXPANSIVE LOOKS AT THE ECONOMY AND CHANGES IN ABORTION LAWS IN AMERICA.

BUT FIRST UP IN THE HOUR, A LONG LOOK AT LONG COVID.

THE PANDEMIC IS NOW TWO AND A HALF YEARS OLD, AND NEW VARIANTS AND SUBVARIANTS GET MOST OF THE MEDIA ATTENTION.

BUT WE STILL KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT LONG COVID.

WHO GETS IT AND WHY AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO TREAT IT.

THAT'S WHERE WE START THE CONVERSATION TONIGHT WITH MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

HE HEADS THE CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY AT THE U OF M. DOCTOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THE RESEARCH ON LONG COVID IS THAT POCKETS OF THE VIRUS MAY REMAIN IN THE GUT AND THAT IT PROLONGS HE VIRUS, IS THAT GOOD RESEARCH?

>> WELL, LET ME JUST START OUT WITH THOSE THREE FAMOUS WORDS THAT UNFORTUNATELY THIS AUDIENCE HAS BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO HEARING ME SAY, I DON'T KNOW.

NO ONE KNOWS RIGHT NOW.

IT'S LEAR THAT LONG COVID MAY BE A CONSTELLATION OF DIFFERENT THINGS HAPPENING, INCLUDING, IN SOME CASES, A SEQUESTERED VIRUS, MEANING THAT IT'S NOT COMPLETELY CLEARED, IT'S STILL THERE AND YOU'RE BODY'S REACTING OR RESPONDING TO IT.

ALSO THERE'S EVIDENCE, HOWEVER, THAT THE VIRUS IS CLEARED, BUT THAT THE IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS BEEN TURNED ON IN A WAY THAT IT DOESN'T SHUT OFF AND IT CONTINUES TO CAUSE THESE PROBLEMS.

REMEMBER, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD EXPERIENCE WITH WHAT WE, I GUESS, WOULD CALL LONG COVID-LIKE ILLNESS LONG BEFORE COVID EVER SHOWED UP, IT'S CALLED CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME.

SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS A TOTAL SURPRISE.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE TODAY IS WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MANY PEOPLE GET LONG COVID.

THE NUMBERS VARY BETWEEN 2 AND 3%, ALL THE WAY TO 25% OF ALL PEOPLE WHO GET COVID INFECTION.

AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING, WHETHER IT'S THE BRAIN FOG, THE SEVERE FATIGUE, THE CARDIAC, AND LUNG PROBLEMS, ARE THEY ALL RELATED TO ONE THING, ARE THERE SEVERAL DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON?

SO THIS IS AN AREA WE DESPERATELY NEED MUCH MORE WORK IN.

>> Eric: OLDER, MORE THAN YOUNGER GET IT?

>> YOU KNOW, IT VARIES AGAIN BY STUDIES.

WHEN THE ONE FACTOR THAT REALLY HAS BEEN, I THINK, PERSISTENT IN TERMS OF ITS FINDING IS THAT WOMEN TEND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THAN MEN TO BECOME LONG COVID CASES.

AND THIS, AGAIN, IS A PHENOMONA THAT WE ACTUALLY SEE WITH CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME.

SO, AGAIN, I JUST EMPHASIZE, WE NEED MUCH MORE RESEARCH IN THIS REA BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO SEE NEW LONG COVID CASES DEVELOPING.

AS YOU STARTED OUT IN YOUR INTRODUCTION HERE, WE'RE TWO AND A HALF YEARS INTO THIS PANDEMIC, AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT'S GOING TO END.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME REAL CHALLENGES AHEAD OF US WITH THESE NEW SUBVARIANTS, NOTHING THE PUBLIC WANTS TO HEAR.

BUT THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

AND AS A RESULT OF THIS ONGOING PART OF THE PANDEMIC, LONG COVID CONTINUES TO BE AN EVER REAL THREAT.

>> Eric: TELL US ABOUT B-A-5?

>> WELL, AS YOU MAY RECALL, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED IN THIS PANDEMIC, WE HAD A STRAIN OF VIRUS THAT WAS CALLED OFTEN BY THE ANCESTRAL STRAIN THAT ORIGINATED IN CHINA.

AND IT WAS ONLY REALLY EIGHT TO TEN MONTHS INTO THE PANDEMIC THAT WE RECOGNIZED WE HAVE THESE THINGS CALLED VARIANTS, MEANING THAT IT WAS GENETIC AREICALLY CHANGING ENOUGH THAT WE COULD SAY THIS IS VIRTUALLY A DIFFERENT TYPE OF VIRUS NOW, ALTHOUGH IT'S RELATED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ONE.

GENETICALLY.

AND WE LABELED THEM, VIA THE GREEK ALPHABET, ALPHA, BETA, WE SAW GAMMA, DELTA, AND THEN WE GET TO OMICRON AND UNLIKE BEFORE, WHERE YOU JUST HAD A VARIANT, OMICRON ITSELF SPLIT OFF INTO WHAT IS CALLED SUBVARIANTS AND WE HAD BA1, WE HAD BA.2, AND 2.1, 2, WE NOW HAVE BA4 AND BA5 AND EVEN THIS PAST WEEK, BA.2.75.

ALL OF THESE ARE DIFFERENT.

AND WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE NEW BA4 AND 5, PARTICULARLY BA5, THESE ARE HIGHLY INFECTIOUS VIRUSES, AS INFECTIOUS AS WE'VE SEEN.

I WOULD PUT IT UP IN THE ORDER OF MEASLES TRANSMISSION, THAT'S HOW INFECTIOUS IT IS.

AND IT TURNS OUT THAT HAVING HAD FOUR DOSES OF VACCINE OR HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN INFECTED EVEN WITH BA1, THE ORIGINAL OMICRON THAT SHOWED UP IN DECEMBER, JANUARY BE, AND FEBRUARY, DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE PROTECTED AGAINST BA5.

WE HAVE MANY CASES RIGHT NOW OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED WITH THE TWO BOOSTER DOSES WHO ARE GETTING THIS.

SO, THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE IS WHAT KIND OF SEVERE ILLNESS PICTURE DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE SEVERE ILL SENTENCE AND SOME COUNTRIES, PARTICULARLY PORTUGAL, WE'RE NOW SEEING IT IN THE U.K., WHERE THE NUMBER OF CASES ARE GROWING RAPIDLY, AS ARE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND REALLY CREATING ANOTHER SURGE.

WE'RE CONCERNED HERE IN MINNESOTA BECAUSE WE'RE NOW BEGINNING TO SEE BA5 TAKE OFF IN OUR WASTE WATER SURVEILLANCE, WHERE WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR VIRUSES IN THE WASTE WATER.

HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES, IT'S BEEN OUBLING BASICALLY IN TERMS OF NUMBERS, ABOUT EVERY 18 DAYS, BUT LAST WEEK ALONE IT INCREASED 32%.

SO WE COULD BE IN FOR ANOTHER SURGE HERE WITH BA5, THE QUESTION WILL BE, HOW MANY CASES, WHO WILL GET IT, AND HOW SEVERE THE ILLNESS WILL BE.

>> Eric: TELL US ABOUT THE U OF M STUDY ON A DIABETES DRUG THAT MIGHT BE A COVID TREATMENT.

>> WELL, THERE'S TWO PARTS TO THIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT.

IT WAS A VERY WELL-DONE STUDY.

BY A GROUP AT THE UNIVERSITY OF INNESOTA.

WHAT THEY FOUND WAS THEY WERE NOW THE THIRD CONSECUTIVE WELL-DESIGNED DOUBLE BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED TRIAL, MEANING THAT REALLY THIS IS THE GOLD STANDARD FOR DETERMINING WHAT WORKS AND DOESN'T.

AND THEY FOUND THAT IVERMECTIN, THE ANTIPARASITIC DRUG THAT HAD BEEN TOUTED BY SO MANY, HAD NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER, NONE.

THIRD CONSECUTIVE STUDY, NO GOOD DATA, WOULD ALL REFUTE THAT.

THE OTHER THING THEY FOUND, ANOTHER DRUG, ONE THAT'S USED IN DIABETES, THAT ACTUALLY REDUCED THE LIKELIHOOD THAT SOMEONE WOULD BE ADMITTED TO AN EMERGENCY ROOM OR A HOSPITAL WITH THEIR ILLNESS.

AND THAT IS AN MPORTANT FINDING.

ALSO THERE WAS SOME EVIDENCE BASED ON JUST THE DRUG ITSELF THAT IT MIGHT INTERACT IN A WAY THAT WOULD KEEP THE VIRUS FROM ENTERING CERTAIN CELLS.

SO I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT FINDING.

IT'S A READILY AVAILABLE DRUG.

BUT AT THIS POINT THE REAL NEWS, I THINK, COMING OUT OF THIS IS THAT IVERMECTIN SHOULD NO LONGER EVEN BE CONSIDERED BY ANYONE AS A DRUG OF CHOICE, DESPITE THE FACT THERE ARE MANY WHO CONTINUE TO PUSH IT.

>> Eric: SO THERE'S NO PATTERN, IT'S NOT SEASONAL.

IT'S WHAT YOU SAY, WE'VE GOT TO BE HUMBLE, I GUESS, HUH?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU AND I HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION ON THIS SHOW FOR OVER A YEAR.

AND EVERYBODY SAID IT'S GOING TO BE SEASONAL.

REMEMBER THE LAST TWO SUMMERS, WE'VE HAD MAJOR OUTBREAKS IN THE DEEP SOUTH THAT WERE VERY SEVERE AND, OF COURSE, WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING, GET READY, THE SAME THING'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE END OF JUNE, JULY.

WE'RE NOT SEEING THE DEEP SOUTH ANY MORE IMPACTED THAN ANY OTHER AREA OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

AS I'VE SAID MANY TIMES, BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY.

WE JUST DON'T SEE A PATTERN HERE.

RIGHT NOW IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE, WHICH IS IN THE HEIGHT OF THEIR WINTER, NEW ZEALAND IS HAVING MAJOR CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW WITH THE VIRUS.

BUT SOUTH AFRICA, ALMOST NOTHING'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU LOOK AT THE SUMMERTIME, YOU SEE EUROPE AND AREAS IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, LIKE THE UNITED STATES, NOW GETTING HIT HARD.

SO, I MEAN, THE INFORMATION SUPPORTING THE SEASONALITY OF THIS VIRUS JUST IS SO LIGHT AND IT DOESN'T EXIST AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

>> Eric: JUST A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

I RAN ACROSS THE TERM IMMUNE EVASION THIS WEEK.

WHAT IS THAT?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY, IT'S ONE OF THE REALLY BIG CONCERNS WE HAVE WITH THIS BA5 SUBVARIANT.

IT'S SUCH THAT THE MUTATIONS IN THE VIRUS HAVE CHANGED ENOUGH THAT THE KIND OF PROTECTION THAT WE GET FROM ANTIBODY AND MAYBE EVEN THE T CELL, THE TYPE OF CELLULAR IMMUNITY IS NO LONGER VALID, MEANING THAT IT DOESN'T WORK WELL, AND THAT'S WHAT WE CALL IMMUNE EVASION.

IT ACTUALLY ESCAPES THE IMMUNE RESPONSE.

AT THE SAME TIME WE'RE DEALING WITH A SECOND ISSUE, AND THAT IS A WANING IMMUNITY IN HOSTS.

WE KNOW WITH THIS CORONAVIRUSES NOW THAT EVEN IF WE MOUNT A PROTECTION RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST DOSE, SECOND DOSE, THIRD DOSE, FOURTH DOSE, IT WILL EVENTUALLY WANE.

AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITY OF ADDITIONAL BOOSTER DOSES.

AS I'VE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO BOOSTER OUR WAY OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T TAKEN A THIRD DOSE, LET ALONE A FOURTH DOSE.

IMAGINE TRYING TO GET THEM TO TAKE A FIFTH DOSE.

EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF PUBLICITY AROUND YOUNG KIDS UNDER AGE 5 GETTING THE VACCINE APPROVAL FOR THEIR USE, AS OF THIS WEEK, ONLY ABOUT 2% OF KIDS IN THE U.S. AND 2% OF THE KIDS IN MINNESOTA, IN THAT AGE GROUP, HAVE GOTTEN VACCINATED.

SO AT THIS POINT, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CHALLENGE BECAUSE THE PUBLIC'S DONE WITH THIS PANDEMIC.

THEY'RE DONE.

EVEN IF THE VIRUS ISN'T DONE WITH US.

AND THEY'RE ALSO LARGELY DONE WITH GETTING ORE VACCINES.

AND, SO, WE MAY BE, THOUGH, IN A PLACE FOR SOME TIME WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE GIVING BOOSTER DOSES, MUCH LIKE WE DO FLU VIRUS VACCINES EVERY WINTER.

>> Eric: ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN.

AS USUAL.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

♪ INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC ♪ >> ERIC: THE 2020 CENSUS -— THE FIRST CONDUCTED ONLINE AND UNDERTAKEN DURING A PANDEMIC-- IS NOW HISTORY.

BUT THE U.S. CENSUS STAFF PROVIDES UPDATES WITH NEW ESTIMATES AND DATA.

FOR EXAMPLE, THIS SPRING WE LEARNED THAT MINNESOTA WAS ONE OF A HANDFUL OF STATES WITH A SIGNIFICANT OVERCOUNT IN 2020.

AND JUST DAYS AGO THE FEDS RELEASED NEW ESTIMATES ON CITY AND COUNTY POPULATION AND OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC INFO.

HERE TO NERD OUT ON THE DATA FOR A FEW MINUTES IS STATE DEMOGRAPHER SUSAN BROWER.

MADAM DEMOGRAPHER, LET'S START WITH SAVING THE EIGHT CONGRESSIONAL BE DISTRICT SEATS.

WE HAD AN OVERCOUNT OF THE POPULATION.

NOW, THAT SOUNDS LIKE, ID WE DO SOME HOODIE DOODY HERE, HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN, WHAT IS IT?

>> IT DOES SOUND LIKE THAT.

BUT THERE WERE MANY STATES THAT HAD AN OVERCOUNT.

THERE WERE MANY STATES THAT HAD AN UNDERCOUNT.

MINNESOTA JUST HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THE ONES THAT HAD AN OVERCOUNT, AND NO ONE WAS DOING IT INTENTIONALLY, AS FAR AS I KNOW.

THIS WAS REALLY JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S REALLY COMPLICATED TO TAKE A CENSUS.

SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS WHEN MOTHERS PUT THEIR CHILDREN ON THEIR FORMS AND THOSE CHILDREN ARE ACTUALLY AWAY AT COLLEGE.

THE COLLEGE ALSO COUNTS THEM.

IT'S THOSE KINDS OF MISTAKES THAT TEND TO CREATE AN OVERCOUNT.

>> Eric: IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE, YOU WOULD SAY, WELL, THE TWIN CITIES HAS GOT TO BE YOUNGER.

THAN MAYBE THE REST OF THE STATE.

BUT YOU FOUND POCKETS IN GREATER MINNESOTA WHERE THERE'S A YOUTHFUL TREND.

>> YEAH.

SO IT REALLY -- IT REALLY DEPENDS WHERE YOU ARE IN GREATER MINNESOTA.

THERE ARE POCKETS OF THE STATE THAT ARE MUCH YOUNGER AND MUCH MORE DIVERSE THAN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE, AND IT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH WHAT IS PULLING PEOPLE NTO THOSE AREAS.

USUALLY IT'S ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES OR HOUSING.

SO WE DO SEE REALLY A LOT OF VARIATION ACROSS THE STATE WITH RESPECT TO AGE AND WITH RESPECT TO RACIAL DIVERSITY.

>> Eric: ARE WE GETTING ANY INMIGRATION FROM THE PANDEMIC AND FROM THE PROBLEMS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY OR IS THAT HARD TO MEASURE?

>> SO FAR WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT IN THE DATA.

WE SAW THROUGH 2021, JULY OF 2021, WHICH IS THE MOST RECENT DATA THAT WE HAVE THAT MIGRATION REALLY STOPPED.

LOWER INTERNATIONAL IMMIGRATION WAS SHOWN IN THIS LAST DATA THAT WE GOT, AND THEN ALSO LARGER OUTFLOW OF PEOPLE TO OTHER STATES.

WE HOPE IN THE NEXT ROUND THAT WE SEE THAT TURN AROUND, BUT SO FAR THAT'S KIND OF -- WE'RE SEEING MOSTLY WHAT HAPPENED RIGHT AFTER THE PANDEMIC HIT.

>> Eric: I KNOW WHEN YOU SPOOK TO GROUPS, YOU -- SPEAK TO GROUPS, YOU GET QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE WORKFORCE GOING FORWARD?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> WELL, IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT FOR SOME TIME AND TALKING BOUT FOR SOME TIME AND EVEN MY PREDECESSOR BEFORE ME TALKING ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN WE GOT TO TODAY AND THE BABY BOOMERS WERE RETIRING.

AND WHO WOULD TAKE THEIR JOBS.

SO WE REALLY ARE EXPERIENCING THE IMPACT OF AGING IN MANY OF THE WORKFORCE SHORTAGE -- IN MOST OF THE WORKFORCE SHORTAGES THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING ACROSS THE STATE IS THE RESULT OF THAT AGING WITHOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF KIND OF BACKFILL WITH YOUNGER PEOPLE MOVING IN OR HAVING CHILDREN.

>> Eric: IS THERE SOME ECONOMIC OR LEGISLATIVE REMEDY FOR THAT OR IS THAT JUST THE WAY NATURE IS?

>> THERE HAVE BEEN NORDIC COUNTRIES THAT HAVE TRIED TO CREATE POLICIES TO INCREASE BIRTH RATES.

THEY HAVEN'T WORKED.

BUT IN TERMS OF MIGRATION, IN TERMS OF MIGRATION, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY A FEDERAL POLICY THAT IMPACTS THE FLOW OF PEOPLE TO THE U.S.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE IT EASIER TO LAND HERE AND TO BE WELCOMING WHEN PEOPLE GET HERE AS A STATE, WE CAN MAKE THE TRANSITION EASIER, BUT IN TERMS OF THE IMMIGRATION POLICY, THAT HAPPENS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

>> Eric: LET ME TAKE A FLIER AND ASK IF THERE ARE MORE BIRTHS DURING HE PANDEMIC?

>> THE BIRTHS -- >> Eric: PEOPLE HAD NOTHING ELSE TO DO.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

PEOPLE DO ASK THAT.

AND, ACTUALLY, IRTHS DECLINED.

- >> Eric: WHAT?

>> YES, BIRTHS DECLINED.

>> Eric: WOW.

>> AND I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH KIND OF THE UNCERTAINTY AROUND -- ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY, WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE HAD BEEN SEEING A DECLINE IN BIRTHS FOR MANY YEARS.

WE SAW IT DIP FURTHER DURING THE PANDEMIC, BUT IT'S COME UP JUST A LITTLE BIT SINCE THE BEGINNING, SINCE ABOUT TEN MONTHS AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Eric: SO LOOKING A LITTLE LONGER TERM, WITH TELECOMMUTING, REMOTE WORK AND SO FORTH, DO WE EXPECT TO GET SOME OF THAT OVER TIME OR IS THAT JUST A NONSTARTER?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLE.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT IN THE DATA YET.

BUT I KEEP HEARING ABOUT IT EVERYWHERE I GO THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FREED FROM THEIR DESKS AND ARE MOVING TO PLACES THAT THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO MOVE BEFORE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED TO BE CLOSE TO WORK.

AND, SO, THAT POTENTIALLY COULD SET UP NEW MIGRATION PATTERNS, BOTH WITHIN THE STATE AND TO AND FROM OUTSIDE OF THE STATE.

BUT WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WATCH FOR THAT.

WE DON'T KNOW YET.

>> Eric: ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THANKS FOR HELPING US NERD OUT.

>> THANKS FOR NERDING OUT WITH ME.

>> Eric: THANKS, SUSAN.

GREAT STUFF.

♪♪ [ BREATHING DEEPLY ] ♪♪ >> AT LAST, A BREDS OF FRESH -- A BREATH OF FRESH AIR.

IN A PLACE LIKE THIS, YOU CAN LET GO OF WHATEVER WEIGHS YOU DOWN AND FILL YOUR UNGS WITH THE JOY OF BEING OUTSIDE.

I'M IN DEATH VALLEY, ONE OF THE MOST REMOTE PLACES IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND AT 282 FEET BELOW SEA LEVEL, THIS IS NORTH AMERICA'S GROUND FLOOR.

RISING UP AROUND ME IS A LANDSCAPE THAT MAY SEEM EMPTY AND LIFELESS.

AND, YET, I CAN'T HELP BUT FEEL A CONNECTION TO SOMETHING THAT MAKES ME FEEL ALIVE.

MY NAME IS BARATUN, I'M A WRITER, ACTIVIST, SOMETIMES COMEDIAN, AND I'M ALL ABOUT EXPLORING THE ISSUES THAT SHAPE US AS AMERICANS.

THIS COUNTRY IS WILD.

AND ITS NATURAL LANDSCAPES ARE AS DIVERSE AS ITS PEOPLE.

>> THERE IT IS, THERE IT IS.

>> HOW DOES OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE OUTDOORS DEFINE US, AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS A NATION?

>> ON TUESDAY NIGHT THE FIRST OF SIX PARTS OF THE PBS SERIES "“AMERICA OUTDOORS"” AIRED ON STATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE PROGRAM WAS CREATED BY TWIN CITIES PBS.

LAST WEEK WE SHOWED YOU A PREVIEW OF THE SERIES.

THIS WEEK DAVID GILLETTE TALKS WITH THE PROGRAM'S HOST, AUTHOR AND OUTDOORS ENTHUSIAST BARATUNDE THURSTON.

IN THEIR CONVERSATION, DAVID LEARNED, AMONG OTHER THINGS, HOW YOUTUBE CAN BE HELPFUL WHEN IT COMES TO HOST PREPARATION.

TAKE A GANDER.

>> David: THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING TIME.

I WANTED TO START RIGHT WITH THE LOCAL HOOK BECAUSE AS WE TRUMPETED ON OUR MAGAZINE, THIS IS A TWIN CITIES PBS ORIGINAL.

AND YOU HAVE SOME CONNECTIONS TO MINNESOTA.

THIS WASN'T YOUR FIRST TIME VISITING.

>> NOT MY FIRST TIME.

MY BROTHER-IN-LAW AND HIS WIFE AND THEIR KIDS LIVE THERE, SO I SPENT FOURTH OF JULYS THERE, I SPENT HOLIDAYS THERE.

I'VE DONE A TEENY AMOUNT OF YARD WORK THERE, BUT MOSTLY JUST PLAYING IN THE YARD WITH THE KIDS.

BUT, YEAH, LITERALLY HAVE FAMILY IN THE TWIN CITIES.

SO I FEEL CONNECTED IN THAT WAY.

AND, HONESTLY, ONE F MY VISITS THERE RECENTLY I ALSO WENT OVER TO GEORGE FLOYD SQUARE JUST TO PAY TRIBUTE AND HONOR TO NOT ONLY GEORGE FLOYD BUT THE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE WHO STOOD TALL FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AND BETTER RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN POLICE AND COMMUNITIES.

SO I FEEL A CONNECTION THERE, TOO, IT'S LESS FAMILIAL BUT ALMOST DEEPER IN SOME WAYS.

ANYWAY, I LOVE ME SOME TWIN CITIES.

>> David: YOU ARE ALL OVER.

I SAW YOU RIDING HORSES, I SAW YOU OUT IN THE OCEAN.

COMMON THEMES BETWEEN ALL THESE PLACES THAT SEEM, AT LEAST ON SCREEN, TO BE VERY DIFFERENT.

>> COMMON THEME, SWEAT, SWEAT WAS DEFINITELY A COMMON THEME, SORE MUSCLES THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE I DON'T RIDE HORSES EVERY DAY, SO WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T DO NORMALLY TO EXTREME, YOU FEEL IT THE NEXT MORNING.

SO THAT WAS ONE THING.

ANOTHER THEME WAS LAND SHAPES PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE USED TO THINKING OF OURSELVES PRETTY ARROGANTLY AS A SPECIES, AS THOSE WHO SHAPE THE WORLD AROUND US.

AND SHAPE NATURE.

NATURE SHAPES US.

AND WHEN YOU THINK OF DIVERSITY IN TERMS OF RELIGION AND RACE AND GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BUT IT'S A DIVERSITY OF ECOLOGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT AS WELL THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE BEAUTY, I THINK, OF THE SPECTRUM OF THE COUNTRY.

>> David: I WANTED TO GET BACK JUST TO SOME OF THE FUN ACTIVITIES, THAT'S SUCH A CORE PART OF THE SHOW.

AS A HOST, I COULD SEE YOU PLAYING THAT A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

DID YOU PRETEND LIKE YOU NEW WHAT YOU WERE DOING OR DID YOU LET THE AUDIENCE IN ON THE SECRET, MAYBE I HAVEN'T SURFED A TON.

KNEW.

HOW DID YOU PLAY THAT?

>> LISTEN, I HAVE AN EGO, I'M A TELEVISION HOST, I'M A PERFORMER, I WANT TO LOOK GOOD ON CAMERA.

I GOT TO OWN A SURFBOARD FOR -- I GOT ON THE SURFBOARD FOR TEN SECONDS.

TELL ME YOU GOT THAT, TELL ME YOU GOT THAT.

I DID SOME RESEARCH.

I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING, THE BOUNDARY WATERS, ONE OF MY FAVORITE EXCURSIONS, WITH THE FREEMAN FAMILY, I WAS LOOKING UP HOW TO PADDLE, YOU KNOW.

AND YouTube IS MY FRIEND.

SOMETIMES YouTube, YOU KNOW, RIPS APART DEMOCRACY, OTHER TIMES IT MAKES YOU LOOK GOOD ON TELEVISION.

I WAS GOING TO BE PADDLING LL BY MYSELF AND THEY WERE TWO IN A BOAT.

I COULDN'T AFFORD TO BE BAD AT PADDLING A CANOE.

THEY MET ME, THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD J STROKE YOU GOT THERE.

YOU BEEN CANOEING LONG?

OH, YOU KNOW, I DO A LITTLE OF THIS THAT, A LITTLE OF THAT, BUT IT WAS YouTube THE NIGHT BEFORE.

>> David: ONE OF THE THINGS WE THROW AROUND, THIS PERSON IS OUTDOORSCY.

THIS PERSON HAS MORE EXPERIENCE WITH IT.

I'VE ALWAYS KIND OF WONDERED ABOUT THAT PHRASING.

IS THAT REALLY A THING?

DO YOU NEED TO BE OUTDOORSCY TO ACCESS WHAT YOU ACCESS?

>> EVERYONE SHOULD ENJOY WHAT I GOT TO ENJOY.

EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO ENJOY WHAT I GOT TO ENJOY.

I SPENT TIME WITH HE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF THIS LAND, INCLUDING MINNESOTA, THE OJIBWE, ANISHINAABE, DOING A HARVEST, I SPENT TIME WITH IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE VERY NEW TO THIS LAND AND EVERYONE IN BETWEEN.

AS A BLACK PERSON WHO HAS TROUBLED HISTORY WITH AMERICAN SOIL, THAT WE WERE FORCED TO TOIL OVER AND MURDERED OVER CONSTANTLY, TO RECLAIM THAT CONNECTION, THE HEALING POTENTIAL, TO REATHE AT THE PACE OF THE EARTH AND SEE A TREE, NOT JUST AS SOMETHING TO BE MINED AND USED TO BUILD A HOUSE, BUT AS A PART OF OUR LUNGS BEYOND OUR BODIES, I THINK IT'S NOT ONLY OUR RIGHT, IT'S OUR OBLIGATION TO REDISCOVER THAT CONNECTION TO NATURE.

IT HELPS US REDISCOVER A CONNECTION TO OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER.

♪ THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND.

♪ THIS LAND IS MY LAND ♪ >> ERIC: THE REVERSAL OF ROE V. WADE HAS BROUGHT SWIFT CHANGE TO AMERICA.

THAT'S THE TOPIC OF OUR NEXT TWO SEGMENTS.

NEARLY ALL STATES THAT NOW BAN ABORTIONS ALLOW EXCEPTIONS WHEN THE MOTHER'S LIFE IS AT RISK.

BUT WHAT DOES THAT PHRASE ACTUALLY MEAN?

AND WHO MAKES THE DETERMINATION?

THAT'’S THE COMPLEX TOPIC THAT SCIENCE WRITER MAGGIE KOERTH EXPLORED IN HER LATEST STORY FOR THE DATA NEWS SITE FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM, AND SHE JOINS US NOW TO TALK ABOUT IT.

YOU HEAR THIS TRIP OFF THE TONGUE OF POLITICIANS SO OFTEN.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: RAPE, I C'EST, LIFE OF THE MOTHER -- INCEST, LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

IT SOUNDS CUT AND DRIED BUT IT'S ANYTHING BUT.

>> IT'S ANYTHING BUT.

SO A LOT F THE PROBLEMS WITH THESE LAWS AND THE EXCEPTIONS, THE AY THAT THEY'RE WRITTEN, MOST OF THEM ARE VERY VAGUE.

THEY DON'T SPECIFY WHAT THEY MEAN BY HE LIFE OF THE MOTHER AND THAT CAN LEAVE A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY KIND OF BUILT IN.

SO THERE'S A DOCTOR I TALKED TO, LISA HARRIS, AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN, SHE TOLD ME IT'S MAYBE ONCE A YEAR IN HER PRACTICE THAT SHE RUNS INTO SOMEBODY WHO IS ACTUALLY LITERALLY GOING TO DIE THIS MINUTE F THEY DO NOT GET AN ABORTION.

BUT THERE ARE MANY MANY PEOPLE THAT SHE TREATS WHO ARE IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY MIGHT HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF DYING OR THEY MIGHT BE AT RISK OF DYING IN A YEAR OR THEY MIGHT BE AT RISK OF DYING SEVERAL MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD AS THEIR PREGNANCY PROGESSES.

AND IT'S NOT EALLY CLEAR WITH MOST OF THESE LAWS WHERE THOSE PEOPLE FALL AND WHAT THEIR DOCTORS CAN AND CAN'T DO TO HELP THEM.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE THE RISKS FOR DOCTORS, HOW ARE THEY APPROACHING THIS?

>> SO, THIS IS A THING WHERE YOU HAVE THE LAWS THEMSELVES AND THEN YOU HAVE THE LEGAL FEARS THAT SORT OF STACK ON TOP OF IT AND ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN EVEN THE LAWS THEMSELVES ARE SET UP TO BE.

SO DOCTORS ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT -- THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING SUED IN TEXAS.

THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE LICENSES, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CONTROVERSY, EVEN IN STATES THAT DON'T HAVE ABORTION RESTRICTIONS, LIKE SOME OF THESE OTHER ONES DO.

AND THE RESULT OF THAT IS THAT DOCTORS OFTEN ARE KIND OF IN A POSITION WHERE THEIR HOSPITAL WON'T LET THEM PERFORM AN ABORTION THAT THEY BELIEVE A PATIENT NEEDS OR WHERE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT PERFORMING THAT ABORTION THEMSELVES.

LISA ARRIS SAID THAT SHE HAS BEEN HAVING LOTS OF PATIENTS COMING UP FROM TEXAS TO MICHIGAN TO GET ABORTIONS FOR THINGS THAT INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, FETAL DEMISE, FETAL ANOMALIES THAT ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH LIFE.

>> Eric: YOU HAD A WOMAN NAMED LAYLA IN YOUR STORY.

CAN YOU BRIEFLY TELL HER SITUATION AND HOW IT APPLIES MORE BROADLY?

>> YEAH.

SO LAYLA WAS A WOMAN THAT SPOKE WITH US FOR OUR STORY, AND SHE HAD -- GOD, SHE HAD JUST SUCH A HARROWING TALE.

- WHAT HAPPENED TO HER, SHE STARTED HAVING THESE REALLY SCARY SYMPTOMS, SHE LOST SOME EYESIGHT, SHE WAS HAVING HORRIBLE HEADACHES, SHE WAS VOMITING REPEATEDLY AND SHE WAS EIGHT WEEKS PREGNANT.

AND WHAT BASICALLY ENDED UP HAPPENING IS THAT NO ONE COULD DO THE RIGHT KIND OF MRIs OR GIVE ER THE RIGHT KIND OF TREATMENT FOR THOSE SYMPTOMS AS LONG AS SHE WAS PREGNANT.

BUT GETTING AN ABORTION WAS NEVER BROUGHT UP TO HER AND SHE BASICALLY HAD TO TRACK DOWN HOW TO GET ONE AS FAST AS SHE COULD ON HER OWN WITHOUT HER DOCTOR'S HELP BECAUSE HER DOCTOR, EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS IN MARYLAND, WHICH IS NOT A STATE THAT HAS SEVERE ABORTION RESTRICTIONS, THE HOSPITAL WOULDN'T DO IT, AND SHE DIDN'T -- WASN'T GETTING ANY HELP TRYING TO FIND WHERE SHE COULD GO.

SO SHE ENDED UP HAVING TO, THROUGH ALL THIS HAZE OF ILLNESS THAT WAS GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE, SET UP AN ABORTION AT A PRIVATE CLINIC, AND AFTER SHE GOT HER ABORTION, SHE FOUND OUT FROM HER DOCTORS THAT SHE HAD A LIFE-THREATENING INFECTION IN HER OPTIC NERVE THAT COULD HAVE KILLED HER, HAD IT GONE ON.

>> Eric: INSURANCE COME INTO PLAY HERE, MEDICAID OR PRIVATE INSURANCE?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY DOES.

MEDICAID, SOME OF THE DOCTORS I SPOKE TO SAID MEDICAID HAS BEEN JUST REALLY NOTORIOUSLY INCONSISTENT ABOUT WHAT IT WILL AND WILL NOT COVER.

SO THERE ARE LAWS IN PLACE ON A FEDERAL LEVEL THAT PREVENTS FEDERAL MONEY FROM BEING USED FOR ABORTION EXCEPT IN THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER, AND STATES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES AS WELL ABOUT THAT.

BUT WHAT THEY SORT OF FIND IS THAT WHETHER SOMETHING GETS APPROVED OR NOT BY MEDICAID DEPENDS ON THE STATE AND IT DEPENDS ON EVEN THE SPECIFIC PERSON DOING THE APPROVAL.

SO THERE'S A OCTOR I SPOKE TO WHO HAD TO DELAY A PATIENT'S CARE BECAUSE THIS PATIENT HAD SICKLE CELL ANEMIA AND SHE KNEW THAT SOMETIMES MEDICAID WOULD PAY FOR A SICKLE CELL ABORTION AND SOMETIMES IT WON'T AND YOU NEVER KNOW UNTIL THE RETURN COMES BACK.

>> Eric: WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT A PATCHWORK OF LAWSUITS AT THE STATE LEVEL, AREN'T WE?

>> WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT A, I THINK, MORE BY PATCHWORK OF WHETHER WOMEN CAN GET TREATMENT OR NOT.

THIS IS GOING TO BE, AND ALREADY IS, SEVERE ISSUE.

IT'S BEEN A SEVERE ISSUE FOR YEARS, ACTUALLY.

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE TOLD IS THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN IN STATES WHERE YOU HAVE SECULAR HOSPITALS AND FAIRLY LENIENT ABORTION RULES, HOSPITALS HAVE STILL BEEN, FOR MANY YEARS, RELUCTANT TO HAVE THE KIND OF TRAINING AND THE KIND OF CLINICS SET UP TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN TREAT PATIENTS WHO NEED ABORTIONS FOR THERAPEUTIC REASONS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO RUN AFOUL OF CONTROVERSY.

>> Eric: DATA PRIVACY GOING TO COME INTO PLAY HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING IS THAT THERE'S SOME OVERPLAYEDNESS AROUND WORRYING ABOUT LIKE THE PERIOD TRACKING APPS.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WITH THE HOSPITALS THAT DATA PRIVACY IS NECESSARILY A BIG THING.

THE BIGGER THING IS JUST GETTING PEOPLE TREATED AT ALL.

>> Eric: IS IT FIVE THINKERTY EIGHT.COM.

>> UM-HUM.

>> Eric: IT'S ARCHIVED THERE?

>> IT IS.

>> Eric: ALWAYS GOOD STUFF FROM YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

>> ERIC: AMERICA'S NEW >> ERIC: AMERICA'S NEW ^ ABORTION LAWS ARE ALREADY AFFECTING THE WORKPLACE.

WHERE WOMEN LIVE AND WORK NOW DETERMINES THEIR ACCESS TO ABORTION SERVICES.

SOME CORPORATIONS ARE NOW OFFERING REPRODUCTIVE TRAVEL BENEFITS.

AND THE NEW PATCHWORK OF LAWS MAY LEAD TO MOVEMENT OF WORKERS.

HERE TO TALK MORE ABOUT THIS IS JIAO LUO.

SHE'S A PROFESSOR AT THE CARLSON SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

HER EXPERTISE INCLUDES CORPORATE SOCIAL IMPACT AND SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY.

PROFESSOR, WELCOME.

WHAT EMPLOYER/EMPLOYEE ISSUES ARE ALREADY ARISING FROM THIS FOR BUSINESS?

>> THANK YOU, ERIC, FOR HAVING ME.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ISSUES.

ONE IS THAT THE BUSINESSES ARE ALREADY TRYING TO MAKE A DECISION IN TERMS OF HOW DO THEY UPDATE THEIR INSURANCE POLICIES AND REIMBURSE THE TRAVEL COSTS, SOME DO, SOME DON'T.

ALSO WHAT KIND OF COVERAGE THAT'S GOING TO BE.

OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS A LOT OF COST IMPLICATIONS, BUT IT ALSO HAS A HUGE IMPLICATION FOR, YOU KNOW, MANY BUSINESSES IN MINNESOTA ARE ARGE AND THEY HAVE PATIENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU HAVE A DIVERSE SET OF CUSTOMERS, EMPLOYEES, WHO, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS A DIVISIVE ISSUE, RIGHT, HOW DO THEY ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THAT IS A BIG CONSIDERATION.

FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, COSTS CAN BE PROHIBITIVELY HIGH.

SO THE OTHER POTENTIAL IMPLICATION THAT THE BUSINESSES HAVE TO CONSIDER IS THE IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE -- SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE CHOICES, RIGHT?

BUT OTHERS AY WANT TO MOVE TO PLACES THAT ACTUALLY PROTECT ABORTION RIGHTS.

SO HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?

AND, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S ANOTHER CONSIDERATION.

>> Eric: I SUPPOSE THERE WOULD E WOMEN WHO ARE ANTIABORTION WHO MIGHT WANT TO MOVE TO A STATE THAT BANS ABORTION, I SUPPOSE IT COULD WORK BOTH WAYS, OBVIOUSLY.

>> IT COULD.

IT COULD DEFINITELY WORK OTH WAYS.

THE IMPLICATIONS, YOU KNOW, FUNDAMENTALLY, THIS MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, HERE'S GOING TO BE MOBILITY CONSTRAINTS FOR WOMEN, FEMALES WHO CAN CARRY CHILD, RIGHT?

AND THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR WAGE NEGOTIATIONS.

THAT HAS IMPACT ON CAREER TRAJECTORY.

SO RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEALING WITH THE FIRST WAVE OF CONSIDERATION, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, DO WE REIMBURSE OR NOT, HEALTHCARE RELATED.

BUT WHAT ABOUT LABOR MARKETS IN THE FUTURE?

SOMETHING TO GRAPPLE WITH.

>> Eric: YEAH, WITH THAT TIGHT LABOR MARKET, AS YOU MENTIONED, WHAT DOES THAT ADD AS FAR AS TO THE COMPLICATION OF THINGS?

>> YES.

SO I THINK THE PITCH FOR THE FIRMS, WE SEE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE OVERTURNING OF ROE, FIRMS, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THEM DON'T SAY MUCH BEFORE, BUT THEY'RE ALREADY REVIEWING THEIR INSURANCE POLICIES WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

AND AT THE OVERTURN, STARTED TO UPDATE, RIGHT, AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A VERY TIGHT SPOT IN TERMS OF THE LABOR MARKET, AND THEY'RE ALL VERY VERY STRONG VOICES WITHIN THE FIRM.

EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, THE EMPLOYERS WHO THEY WORK FOR, YOU KNOW, TO PROTECT THEIR HEALTHCARE ACCESS AND THEY ALSO EXPECT THEM TO ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE, RIGHT.

SO THEY HAVE TO RESPOND.

BUT, YOU KNOW, ON THE OTHER HAND, ONCE YOU DO THAT, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A DIVISIVE, AS WE MENTIONED, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A CONCERN OF, WELL, SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ANGRY ABOUT IT, THAT THERE'S EVEN CONCERN ABOUT MAYBE THE FIRMS WILL BE SUED, RIGHT, SO IT'S UNCLEAR THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS AS MENTIONED IN THE LAST SEGMENT IS STILL UNCLEAR.

>> Eric: YOU REMEMBER, WHAT WAS IT, 2010, WHEN TARGET GOT IN TROUBLE OVER THE MARRIAGE, GAY MARRIAGE DEBATE.

>> YUP.

>> Eric: SO I SUPPOSE THEY'RE THREADING A NEEDLE WITH THE POLITICAL ASPECT OF IT.

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, ERIC.

AND, SO, WHAT'S INTERESTING IN THIS CASE IS THAT MANY FIRMS ARE CHOOSING TO BE SILENT.

EVEN IF THEY UPDATED THE INSURANCE POLICY AND REIMBURSING TRAVEL COST.

I THINK, TARGET, YOU MENTIONED, I THINK THIS ONE IS EVEN MORE COMPLEX, BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF THIS EVOLVING.

SO WHAT ARE HE -- CAN THEY BE SUED?

WHAT ARE THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS?

THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, TEMPS, RIGHT -- ATTEMPTS OR CLAIMS THAT THERE'S POTENTIAL LEGAL CONSEQUENCES FOR PEOPLE WHO TRAVEL OR WHO HELP TRAVEL ACROSS STATE BORDERS IN ORDER TO GET ABORTION.

SO IT'S PRETTY DIFFICULT.

YEAH.

>> Eric: DO YOU FIGURE THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN CONTRACT TALKS WITH FEMALE-DOMINATED UNIONS?

>> THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE VARIOUS ACTORS WILL GET INVOLVED, INCLUDING I THINK -- I'D BE VERY SURPRISED IF THE LABOR UNIONS WOULD NOT ACT ON THIS.

BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH YET.

>> Eric: A LOT OF STUFF TO STILL HAPPEN HERE AS IT UNRAVELS, AS THE DAYS MOVE ON.

BUT WE'LL KEEP TRACK OF IT.

DOCTOR, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

♪♪ >> ANYONE ELSE OUT HERE ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR SOME JOY?

IN BETWEEN STRESS-EATING TOOTSIE ROLLS, I'’M KEEPING MY EYES PEELED FOR WHATEVER JOY I CAN FIND.

THAT ORANGE-YELLOW SKY WE HAD FEELS LIKE A METAPHOR FOR THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

EVERYTHING LOOKS AND FEELS OFF, BUT IT'’S HARD TO ACCEPT THAT IT'’S REAL.

I SAID TO MY HUSBAND, "“THE SKY IS YELLOW,"” LIKE HE COULDN'’T SEE OUT THE WINDOW HE WAS SITTING NEXT TO.

READING THE DAILY NEWS, I FEEL LIKE I'’M CONSTANTLY ASKING THE AIR, "“IS THIS REALLY HAPPENING?

"” SO I'’M LOOKING FOR JOY.

ONCE, A FRIEND ASKED WHAT I LIKED TO READ, AND, OF COURSE, I SAID, "“SCIENCE FICTION.

"” SHE SAID, "“AH, ESCAPISM."”.

I FELT LIKE I'’D COMMITTED SOME KIND OF FAUX PAS BY LIKING SCI FI INSTEAD OF "“LITERATURE;"” LIKE I'’D WALKED OUT OF THE BATHROOM COMPLETELY UNAWARE THAT THE HEM OF MY SKIRT WAS CAUGHT ON MY UNDERWEAR AND NOT THE "“GOOD"” UNDERWEAR.

THESE DAYS, IT'’S "“HECK, YEAH, I WANT TO ESCAPE.

"” SCI FI KNOWS WHAT MAKES A GREAT STORY, AND SOMETIMES THE ONLY THING KEEPING US GOING IS A REALLY GREAT STORY.

MY KID ISN'’T OLD ENOUGH FOR "“THE NEVERENDING STORY"” (BECAUSE HELLO SCARIEST FAIRYTALE CHARACTER EVER, G'’MORK), BUT I CAN'’T WAIT TO SHARE IT WITH HIM.

TEMPORARILY ESCAPING TO ANOTHER WORLD, EMPATHIZING WITH THE CHARACTERS, SNEAKILY SHOWS US WHAT WE'’RE CAPABLE OF, HOW WE CAN BE THE HERO.

I CAN'’T WAIT FOR HIM TO DISCOVER THAT JOY.

THOUGH I'’M STILL A LITTLE BITTER THAT I'’VE NEVER GOTTEN TO RIDE A LUCK DRAGON.

[ Applause ] ♪ TURN AROUND, LOOK AT WHAT YOU SEE ♪ ♪ IN HER FACE ♪ ♪ THE MIRROR OF YOUR DREAMS ♪ ♪ MAKE BELIEVE I'M EVERYWHERE >> ERIC: PLAYOFF TICKETS WENT ON SALE TODAY FOR THE MINNESOTA AURORA SOCCER TEAM.

AFTER A WIN LAST EVENING, THE WOMEN-LED, COMMUNITY-OWNED AMATEUR SQUAD REMAINS UNDEFEATED.

THE TEAM RECENTLY PLAYED ITS FINAL HOME GAME OF THE REGULAR SEASON, AND KRISTOFFER FERNANDES OF TPT WAS THERE TO TAKE IN THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS OF ONE OF THE GREAT STORIES OF THIS SUMMER.

>> LET'S GO!

WE ARE AURORA!

>> WE HAVE TWO GIRLS IN THE CLUB.

THEY PLAY.

SO THIS IS A BIG CHANCE FOR THEM TO SEE WOMEN DOING WHAT WOMEN SHOULD AND CAN DO.

>> SO FAR, THIS IS OUR FIRST GAME.

BUT EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN HAS BEEN IMPRESSIVE.

THEY'RE UNBEATEN.

I WANT THESE GIRLS TO LEARN FROM THEM.

THAT'S MY BIGGEST THING.

IT'S A GREAT THING FOR THE CITY.

FOR THE LOONS.

AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE HUGE FOR MINNESOTA.

[ Cheers ] >> COMING TOGETHER, MAKING THE MOST THAT WE CAN OUT OF THIS OPPORTUNITY AND THIS SUMMER HAS BEEN BETTER THAN PROBABLY ANY OF US COULD HAVE ASKED FOR.

AND, SO, IT'S JUST GREAT TO HAVE SOMETHING IN THE TWIN CITIES.

[ Cheers ] >> I FOUND A WAY TO BE ON STAFF AND I THINK IT'S BEEN REALLY AWESOME.

I THINK IT'S REALLY GREAT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF WOMEN'S SOCCER, I THINK THIS JUST PROVES THAT THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

PEOPLE WANT TO SUPPORT WOMEN IN SPORTS AND THEY WANT TO WATCH IT.

WE PLAY GOOD SOCCER, SO IT'S REALLY EXCITING TO BE A PART OF.

[ Cheers ] [ P.A.

OF ANNOUNCER ] >> IT'S REALLY COOL.

THIS FEELS REALLY EMPOWERING TO HAVE OUR KIDS BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE GAME TODAY?

>> GOOD.

>> THIS IS MY DAUGHTER'S FIRST-EVER SPORTING EVENT.

AND, SO, IT'S GREAT TO SEE HER BE ABLE TO WATCH WOMEN PLAY AND BE INSPIRED BY WOMEN SPORTS.

>> VERY FAMILY FRIENDLY.

WE HAD A GOOD TIME.

>> YEAH, WE LOVED IT.

>> PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT WOMEN'S SPORTS, THAT CARE ABOUT EQUITY AND INCLUSION, I FEEL RIGHT AT HOME HERE.

>> IT'S HARD TO PUT INTO WORDS, BUT I THINK IT MEANS A LOT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

I KNOW WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, THERE WASN'T ANYTHING LIKE THIS FOR PLAYERS.

SO, TO ME, IT'S JUST SO GREAT THAT WE HAVE THIS HERE.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUTH PLAYERS CAN AIM TO BE A PART OF IN THE FUTURE.

IT'S INSPIRING.

>> IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO SEE THE LITTLE GIRLS KIND OF HAVE SOMEONE TO LOOK UP TO AND KIND OF BE ABLE TO HOPE AND SEE THAT THEY CAN ALSO ONE DAY DO THIS.

IT'S BEEN REALLY FUN KIND OF BEING THAT INSPIRATION AND THE ROLE MODEL FOR THE LITTLE GIRLS ESPECIALLY OUT HERE.

[ Cheers ] >> THANK YOU!

>> WHOO!

>> GO AURORA!

♪ BABY, YOU'RE A FIREWORK ♪ ♪ COME ON, SHOW 'EM ♪ >> ERIC: INFLATION IS UP.

OPTIMISM IS DOWN.

AND EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT A RECESSION.

BUT TODAY'S MUCH-ANTICIPATED JOBS REPORT AGAIN SHOWED THAT THE JOB MARKET IS STRONG.

370 MILLION AMERICAN JOBS WERE ADDED LAST MONTH.

JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT ALL THIS, A DUO WHO TRACK THE ECONOMY FOR A LIVING.

LOUIS JOHNSTON IS AN ECONOMIST WHO TEACHES AT THE COLLEGE OF ST. BENEDICT AND ST. JOHN'S UNIVERSITY.

CHRIS FARRELL IS AN ECONOMICS REPORTER BY TRADE.

HE WORKS FOR AMERICAN PUBLIC MEDIA AND CAN BE HEARD ON PUBLIC RADIO ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

FELLAS, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> THANKS.

>> Eric: CAN YOU HAVE A RECESSION WITH THIS STRONG LABOR MARKET, AN UNEMPLOYMENT RATE THIS LOW?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.

I DON'T THINK WE ACTUALLY HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW EITHER.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE CONFUSING INFLATION WITH A RECESSION.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> AGREE.

THERE'S A LOT OF FORECASTS THAT THERE'S A RECESSION.

AND THERE'S ALSO -- THERE'S SOME DATA COMING OUT OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF ATLANTA THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT SAYS THAT FOR SOME TECHNICAL REASONS, WE MIGHT BE IN A RECESSION RIGHT NOW.

BUT, REALLY, WHAT I THINK, AND LEWIS, CORRECT ME, BUT THE ECONOMICS PROFESSION TOOK FROM THAT NUMBER, WE ARE NOT IN A RECESSION, AND, REALLY, WHAT WE'RE DEBATING IS, IN 2023, IS THERE GOING TO BE A RECESSION?

IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING?

BUT IT WAS A GOOD REPORT.

IT WAS ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT INFLATION, THERE'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE.

WHICH IS THAT BACK IN AROUND JANUARY, AND YOU ANNUAL ANALYZE WAGE INCREASES, 6%, WITH THIS LATEST REPORT, A LITTLE OVER 4%.

SO YOU HAVE DECELERATING WAGE GROWTH, WHICH, TO ME, SIGNALS YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A WHOLE LOT OF INFLATION WITH DECELERATING WAGE GROWTH.

>> Eric: WHAT IS A SOFT LANDING AND CAN WE GET THERE?

>> WELL, SOFT LANDING IS THE IDEA THAT WE CAN BRING INFLATION DOWN WITHOUT ACTUALLY PUSHING THE ECONOMY INTO A RECESSION.

AND RIGHT NOW, WE'RE ACTUALLY SEEMING TO BE PULLING IT OFF.

WE'RE ACTUALLY BRINGING -- I THINK INFLATION IS COMING DOWN, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL NUMBERS AND IN TERMS OF THE FORECASTS.

IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD.

YET, UNEMPLOYMENT ISN'T GOING UP.

GDP ISN'T COLLAPSING.

AND, SO, RIGHT NOW E SEEM TO BE BRINGING THE PLANE IN KIND OF -- WE DON'T NEED TO SPRAY FOAM ON THE RUNWAY YET WOULD BE THE WAY I'D PUT IT.

>> Eric: IS IT DOABLE?

>> YOU KNOW, FINGERS CROSSED.

YES, IT'S DOABLE.

THE REASON WHY THERE'S A LOT OF SKEPTICISM OUT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU REALIZE, THERE'S THIS EXPRESSION THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, MONETARY POLICY, WHAT THE FED IS DOING AFFECTS THE ECONOMY WITH A SIX TO 18-MONTH LAG.

>> OH.

>> OKAY.

SO THAT MEANS THAT THE ECONOMY, INFLATION COULD BE COMING DOWN, BUT THE DATA THAT THE FED IS GETTING IS NOT SAYING THAT.

AND, SO, THEY TIGHTEN TOO MUCH.

HISTORICALLY THAT'S BEEN THE CASE.

THEN THEY HIT THE ECONOMY HARDER THAN THEY NEEDED TO.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE UNCERTAINTY WITH THE FORECASTING IS REALLY BAD.

BUT THE THINGS I WOULD BE LOOKING AT, YOU'RE SEEING SOME OTHER CONFIRMING SIGNS.

PRICE OF COPPER, WAY DOWN.

AND COPPER'S CONSIDERED ONE OF THOSE REAL SIGNS ABOUT ECONOMIC VITALITY.

THE BALTIC FREIGHT INDEX WHICH GIVES YOU AN IDEA ABOUT SHIPPING.

THAT'S BEEN COMING DOWN.

SO THERE ARE THESE SIGNS IN THE COMMODITY MARKETS AND RELATED MARKETS THAT INFLATIONARY PRESSURES ARE EASING.

WE'RE NOT WHERE WE WANT TO BE, BUT INFLATIONARY PRESSURES ARE EASING.

>> Eric: NOW THE FED MEETS THE 26th AND 27th OF JULY.

I WONDER IF THEY HAD A GO AHEAD FOR A PRETTY BIG INTEREST RATE INCREASE.

>> THEY'VE ALREADY SAID THEY'RE GOING TO DO A THREE-QUARTER PERCENT INCREASE.

AND IT WOULD SHOCK THE MARKETS.

CHRIS, YOU THINK ABOUT THIS STUFF MORE THAN I DO.

BUT I THINK IT WOULD SHOCK THE FINANCIAL MARKETS NOT TO DO T. BUT THE QUESTION NOW WOULD BE, THEY SAID WE'RE GOING TO KEEP DOING THAT THE REST OF THE YEAR.

MAYBE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO NOW THE REST OF THE YEAR.

MAYBE THEY WILL SAY, OKAY, WE'LL DO THREE-QUARTERS NOW, BUT THEN AT OUR NEXT MEETING WE'LL ONLY DO A HALF A PERCENT.

THAT'S OSSIBILITY.

I HINK.

>> Eric: THEY'RE AN INDEPENDENT GROUP, OBVIOUSLY.

BUT HOW DO THE POLITICAL PRESSURES AND THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS FIT IN WITH THE FED, IF THEY DO AT ALL?

>> SO I THINK WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING, THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM VOICES ON WALL STREET THAT YOU HAVE TO CRUSH INFLATION.

YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG IN INFLATION, YOU'RE LATE TO ATTACK IT, YOU WERE SLOW ON THE UPTAKE.

YOU NOW, THE GENIE'S OUT OF THE BOTTLE, COME UP WITH ALL KINDS OF THINGS LIKE.

THAT SO THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE COMING FROM WALL STREET TO BE VERY VERY AGGRESSIVE.

AND THERE'S LSO -- IN OUR POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVES ARE EMPHASIZING HOW TERRIBLE INFLATION IS, HOW BAD IT IS, HOW BAD EVERYTHING IS, AND WE'RE COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY O FEEL REALLY BAD, DESPITE A LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

SO I THINK THERE'S ENORMOUS PRESSURE ON THE FED TO ACT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S SO MUCH THE MIDTERM, BUT I THINK ONE OF THEIR CONSTITUENCIES, WHICH IS WALL STREET, THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE.

>> Eric: ARE WE ROOTING NOW FOR LESS HIRING AND SMALLER WAGES?

I MEAN -- >> WELL, I'M NOT.

I'M NOT.

>> Eric: IS THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO?

>> IN A SENSE, THAT'S THE FLIP SIDE OF WHAT CHRIS WAS SAYING ABOUT WALL STREET BEING ONE OF THE FED'S CONSTITUENCIES, ONE OF THE FED'S NOT CONSTITUENCIES IS LABOR MARKETS.

IN A SENSE, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BALANCE OUT PRICES AND WAGES AND EMPLOYMENT AND INFLATION.

BUT COMING OUT OF THE 2008 FINANCIAL CRISIS, THEY REALLY TRIED TO HELP OUT WORKERS.

OKAY.

WE HAD ZERO INTEREST RATES, WE TRIED TO GET THE ECONOMY THAT WAY.

THIS TIME THEY SEEM TO BE THINKING, WELL, WE DID THAT LAST TIME.

THIS TIME WE GOTTA CRACK DOWN ON INFLATION.

WE HAVE TO JUST SHOW THAT WE'RE JUST AS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AS ANYTHING ELSE.

>> Eric: THE CONGRESS, I GUESS, IS WORKING ON A SKINNIER RECONCILIATION BILL THAT STILL WOULD BE VERY EXPENSIVE PUMPING, YOU KNOW, BILLIONS AND BILLIONS INTO THE ECONOMY.

IS THAT THE PROPER TIME TO BE -- IS NOW THE PROPER TIME TO BE DOING THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING, A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT'S CALLED THE CAREGIVING ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT CHILD CARE, ELDER CARE, I MEAN, ONE OF THE -- >> Eric: THAT'S KEEPING WOMEN OUT OF THE WORKFORCE.

>> YES, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES THERE.

SO MANY WOMEN STILL HAVEN'T COME BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE, SAME THING WITH MANY PARENTS.

AND THERE'S THIS LACK OF AFFORDABLE, QUALITY CHILD CARE.

AND PART OF IT IS THE PRICES OVER THE PAST 15 YEARS, YOU KNOW, PER-HOUR CHILD CARE HAS GONE UP BY ALMOST 30%.

AND THEN THE THING IS, THERE WAS A SURVEY AND 46% OF PARENTS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN ARE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING CHILD CARE.

YOU KNOW, FORGET EVEN PAYING FOR IT.

SO I THINK THAT ONE OF THE INTERESTING DISCUSSIONS THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW, THE FED HAS A VERY BLUNT INSTRUMENT, WHICH IS INTEREST RATES AND, YOU KNOW, MONETARY POLICY.

AND A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MORE ON THE SUPPLY SIDE OF THE ECONOMY, MORE ACCESS TO CHILD CARE, MORE ACCESS TO ELDER CARE.

YOU KNOW, GETTING -- MAKING SURE THAT THE BOTTLENECKS AT THE SHIPPING PORTS, YOU KNOW, THAT WE GET RID OF THOSE BOTTLENECKS.

BETTER INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS WHAT E'RE WORKING ON.

THE FED IS ALMOST -- HAS ALMOST NO CONTROL OF THE SUPPLY SIDE OF THE ECONOMY, AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THERE CAN BE SOME INTERESTING ACTION.

>> Eric: NEXT WEDNESDAY THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX REPORT COMES OUT.

>> UM-HUM.

>> Eric: YOU'LL BE LOOKING FOR WHAT THERE?

>> MY GUESS IS IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT WHAT IT WAS BEFORE.

WHAT WAS IT LAST MONTH?

ABOUT 8%, I THINK, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THAT.

WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR, THOUGH, IS THAT IT'S NOT INCREASING AT A FASTER RATE.

SO IF IT WAS 8% BEFORE -- >> Eric: THE INFLATION RATE.

>> THE INFLATION RATE.

I DON'T WANT IT TO ACCELERATE.

AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL.

MY GUESS IS THAT IT'S GOING TO EITHER BE THE SAME OR EVEN IF THINGS ARE GOOD, DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ON THE CPI?

>> SO, I THINK, AGAIN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT TREND HEADING DOWN.

AS I MENTIONED ABOUT WITH WAGES, 6%, TO 4.1%, I'M EXPECTING A SIMILAR, LIKE, CHART.

OBVIOUSLY THE NUMBER'S GOING TO BE HARDER -- HIGHER THAN 4.1%.

BUT SORT OF A SIMILAR DYNAMIC AT WORK.

>> Eric: YOU SEE WHERE MINNESOTA, I THINK THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS 2%.

>> YUP.

>> Eric: BUT BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT IS 7%.

>> UM-HUM.

>> Eric: ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO FOCUS ON THAT GAP?

JUST EARING THE STATE DEMOGRAPHER, WE NEED THE WORKFORCE.

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO.

- WE AREN'T.

>> Eric: WHAT HAS TO BE DONE THERE TO GET THOSE FOLKS INVOLVED?

>> TO ME, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT AND WORK ON THE STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS THAT THERE ARE.

FOR EXAMPLE, EDUCATION, MENTIONED CHILD CARE, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THOSE PROBLEMS AND THOSE ARE NOT ISSUES THAT YOU CAN JUST HAVE ONE POLICY.

YOU HAVE O THINK ABOUT IT IN A MUCH MORE DETAILED WAY.

AND WE'RE NOT DOING.

THAT WE'RE TRYING TO THINK OF THINGS LIKE, SHOULD WE CUT TAXES, SHOULD WE LOWER TAXES, SHOULD WE INCREASE SPENDING, DECREASE SPENDING.

NO, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT, ALL RIGHT, WHAT DO WE NEED IN ORDER TO HELP, SAY, A SINGLE MOTHER GET THE TRAINING SHE NEEDS IN ORDER TO GET AN ENTRY-LEVEL JOB.

WHAT ARE THE STEPS AND HOW CAN WE BUILD THAT PATH.

>> Eric: S IT IMPERATIVE FOR THE ECONOMY TO GET, YOU KNOW, FOLKS THAT ARE ON THE SIDELINES INTO THE WORKFORCE, GIVEN THE AGING OF OUR -- YOU KNOW, WE BABY BOOMERS, TEN YEARS FROM NOW, EVERYBODY WILL BE RETIRED IN OUR GROUP.

>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL, BECAUSE YOU THINK ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT QUALITY OF LIFE, IT'S ABOUT HAVING PURPOSE, IT'S ABOUT FEELING THAT YOU'RE PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN YOU, YOU'RE PART OF THE ECONOMY, YOU'RE ATTACHED TO THE ECONOMY.

AND, SO, EMPHASIZING WHAT LOUIS IS TALKING ABOUT, SORT OF THESE SUPPLY SIDE INVESTMENTS AND REALLY JUST FOCUSING ON MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE GET JOBS, AND EVERY ORGANIZATION THAT'S INVOLVED IN THAT, YOU KNOW, WORKING OVERTIME TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS, BUT THEN IT'S -- IT'S THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK.

>> Eric: THE NEEDLE DOESN'T MOVE.

>> IT IS MOVING.

YOU GET THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORKS, HOW CAN YOU GET TO WORK?

SOME OF THE SUPPORT.

SO YOU'RE NOT KICKED OUT OF YOUR APARTMENT.

YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORK WEEK TYPE THING.

ALL THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE DONE.

BUT THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I MEAN, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

BUT THE BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RATE NATIONWIDE, IT WAS 5.8%.

AND DOWN FROM 6.2%.

AND THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS THAT AREN'T AS GOOD AS THAT.

BUT, AGAIN, IT'S PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY, WHEN BUSINESS IS HUNGRY, THE DEFINITION OF A GOOD ECONOMY IS WHEN BUSINESS IS LOOKING FOR WORKERS AND THE DEFINITION OF A BAD ECONOMY IS WHEN WORKERS ARE LOOKING FOR BUSINESS.

>> Eric: I KNOW -- KNOW YOU, IN PARTICULAR, ARE INTERESTED IN THE SENIOR -- THE ABILITY OF SENIORS TO WORK.

>> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH.

>> Eric: BUT IS THAT ONE -- US BABY BOOMERS CAN WORK LONGER?

>> THAT'S A BIG NE.

THE OTHER ONE THAT I THINK NEEDS TO GET TALKED ABOUT A LOT MORE IS IMMIGRATION.

WE ARE NOW FEELING THE EFFECTS OF SQUEEZING IMMIGRATION OVER THE LAST FOUR TO SIX YEARS.

- HERE'S WHAT YOU GET FROM THAT.

YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN FILL THE LEISURE AND HOSPITALITY JOBS, THE PERSONAL SERVICE JOBS WE NEED, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR CAREGIVING, IF PEOPLE WANT TO STAY IN THEIR HOMES RATHER THAN GOING INTO INSTITUTIONS.

THOSE PEOPLE JUST AREN'T THERE.

SO, WE HAVE TO WORK ON IMMIGRATION, WE HAVE TO WORK ON CREATING THESE PATHWAYS, WE HAVE TO GET THAT EDUCATION GAP NARROWED DOWN.

AND AS CHRIS SAID, THOSE ARE ALL SUPPLY SIDE THINGS.

THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT RAISING AND LOWERING INTEREST RATES IS GOING TO -- ISN'T GOING TO HELP.

>> Eric: YOU'VE DONE A PRESENTATION ON -- >> A RETIREMENT GROUP THAT WERE LARGELY FORCED TO RETIRE, BECOME AN EMPLOYEE, THEY RETIRED DURING THE PANDEMIC, YOU KNOW, UNRETIRING, COMING BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE, THEY HAVE KNOWLEDGE, THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE, THEY HAVE SKILL ON, IF ANY ORGANIZATION SAYS, WE CAN'T FIND THE WORKERS THAT WE NEED, THERE IS SOMEBODY, THERE ARE MANY WORKERS OUT THERE, 50 PLUS WITH YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, YEARS OF KNOWLEDGE, WANT TO BE WORKING.

AND IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION OF OUR ECONOMY.

>> Eric: GAS PRICES, YOU DRIVE DOWN, DON'T OU?

>> OH, YEAH.

>> Eric: HOW WE DOING THERE?

>> NOT TOO BAD.

THAT SAME SHAPE WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT SEEMS TO HAVE HIT THE PEAK, COMING BACK DOWN.

BUT NOT VERY FAST.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PRICE OF OIL SEEMS TO HAVE DONE THIS KIND OF A PEAK AND IT'S COMING BACK DOWN AGAIN.

GAS PRICES ARE STILL HIGHER THAN WE'D LIKE, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

>> Eric: BUT IT RIPPLES THROUGH THE ECONOMY, DOESN'T IT?

>> IT DOES.

>> Eric: ALMOST EVERYTHING.

>> AND PART OF WHY WE HAVE THIS HIGH INFLATION THAT WE HAVE IS YOU HAVE THE SUPPLY SIDE, SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES, AND THE WAR IN UKRAINE, WHICH HAS REALLY DRIVEN UP OIL PRICES, GAS PRICES, FOOD PRICES.

AND, SO, ANY FORECAST ABOUT INFLATION ACTUALLY KIND OF HAS, WHAT'S THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

>> Eric: YOU PUT A PROFESSOR AND A REPORTER TOGETHER, YOU GUYS ARE DANGEROUS.

[ Laughter ] GOOD STUFF.

>> THANKS A LOT.

>> Eric: THANKS, MAN.

>> THANKS.

>> ERIC: IT'S THE TIME OF THE SHOW WHEN WE TRY TO STUMP YOU WITH MINNESOTA HISTORY QUESTIONS.

HERE'S OUR EFFORT FROM LAST TIME.

WE TRAVELED BACK IN TIME TO THE SUMMER OF 1930.

THE DATE WAS AUGUST 25TH.

ON THAT DATE A DEPARTMENT STORE IN MINNEAPOLIS CLAIMED TO CREATE A CITYWIDE "FIRST."

IT WAS HERALDED AS A MODERN CONVENIENCE, AND WE ADDED THE HINT THAT THIS NEW-FANGLED ITEM CAN STILL BE FOUND AROUND - TOWN TODAY.

OUR QUESTION: WHAT WAS THIS 1930 NOW UBIQUITOUS SHOPPING CONVENIENCE?

WE ADDED THAT GUESSERS WOULD RECEIVE EXTRA CREDIT BY NAMING THE DEPARTMENT STORE THAT CAME UP WITH THE INNOVATION.

PERHAPS IT WAS THAT EXTRA INCENTIVE THAT RESULTED IN A SPATE OF WRONG GUESSES.

LISTEN UP.

>> ERIC: GLAD YOU FINALLY CALLED, DAVID O.

SORRY THAT IT ENDED UP BEING A CALL OF SHAME.

BY THE WAY, THE MOST POPULAR WRONG ANSWER?

THE SHOPPING CART.

ONLY FOUR OF YOU CONTACTED US WITH CORRECT ANSWERS.

AND THE FIRST TO CALL IN WAS PETER OUT OF GOLDEN VALLEY.

>> THANKS, PETE.

YES, THE POWERS DEPARTMENT STORE EXCITEDLY TOOK OUT NEWSPAPER ADS TOUTING ITS "MOVING STAIRWAYS."

SAFE!

QUICK!

COMFORTABLE!

JUST AS TRUE TODAY AS IT WAS BACK THEN.

DO YOU HAVE A HISTORY QUESTION YOU THINK WE SHOULD ASK?

CONTACT US AT 651-229-1430.

OR PERHAPS YOU HAVE A STORY IDEA FOR US.

WE ALWAYS LIKE HEARING FROM YOU.

651-229-1430 OR SEND US AN EMAIL AT ALMANAC@TPT.ORG.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME TO LEAVE YOU WITH SOME SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC.

IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO THIS WEEK THAT TENOR RICHARD CRAWLEY WAS IN OUR STUDIOS SINGING A FAMED ARIA FROM THE OPERA PAGLIACCI.

SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER THE TUNE FROM THE "NO MORE RICE CRISPIES" TV COMMERCIAL OF THE 1960S.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

CATHY WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

BE CAREFUL.

♪ OPERA ♪ [ Laughter ] ♪ SINGING OPERA ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION Captioned by: Paradigm Reporting & Captioning www.paradigmreporting.com >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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