OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL LOOK AT NEXT STEPS WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION POLICY.

GOVERNOR TIM WALZ WILL BE LIVE IN STUDIO TALKING ABOUT THE FINAL WEEKS OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

LIKE IT OR NOT, COVID CASES ARE AGAIN ON THE RISE.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM WILL JOIN US FOR THAT ONE.

AND THEN MARY LAHAMMER TAKES ANOTHER ANGLE ON THE NEWS THIS WEEK OUT OF WASHINGTON.

>> Mary: WE'LL TALK TO A FORMER STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ABOUT THE LEAK AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, AND ITS EFFECT ON THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

>> THE IMPACT OF THIS LEAK IS PROBABLY UNPRECEDENTED IN ITS SCOPE.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> CATHY: IN A FEW MINUTES WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE NEWS LEAK OUT OF THE SUPREME COURT.

AND WHAT IT MAY MEAN FOR THE FALL ELECTIONS.

WE'LL ALSO LOOK AT LONG COVID WITH THE HELP OF MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

BUT FIRST UP, A CHECK-IN WITH GOVERNOR WALZ.

>> ERIC: THERE ARE 16 DAYS UNTIL THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE ADJOURNS, AND GOVERNOR TIM WALZ SAYS HE WILL NOT CALL A SPECIAL SESSION IF LAWMAKERS DON'T GET THEIR WORK DONE.

IN UPCOMING WEEKS WE'LL HEAR FROM LEGISLATIVE LEADERS.

TONIGHT IT'S THE GOVERNOR'S TURN.

WELCOME BACK TO THE STUDIO.

LET ME MAKE SURE I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT.

IN YOUR CONGRESSIONAL VOTING RECORD, 100% RATING FROM PRO ABORTION RIGHTS FOLKS, ZERO RATING FROM ANTIABORTION RIGHTS GROUPS.

>> YUP.

>> Eric: WITH THAT AS BACKGROUND, WHAT'S YOUR STANCE GOING TO BE OING FORWARD ON THE ABORTION RULING?

>> THANKS OR HAVING ME BACK AGAIN.

I FELT STRONGLY, WOMEN NEED TO HAVE CONTROL OF THEIR OWN BODIES.

THEY NEED TO MAKE THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE DECISIONS.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN CLEAR ON THAT.

SUBSEQUENT CASES HAVE BEEN CLEAR ON THAT.

PRECEDENCE WAS SET.

AND NOW WE'RE IN A TERRITORY THAT WE KNOW THE OUTCOMES ARE ALL BAD, AS WE SAW BEFORE ROE, MAKING SURE WOMEN HAVE THAT TYPE OF ACCESS.

SO I'M WORRIED.

I'M WORRIED OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THAT.

I'M WORRIED IN THE SURROUNDING STATES, WHERE I THINK AFTER THIS GOES THROUGH, THERE WILL BE RESTRICTIONS PUT IN PLACE.

HERE IN MINNESOTA, WE'LL CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE CARE THAT'S NEEDED, CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN MAKE THEIR CHOICES.

>> athy: AND LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE MINNESOTA, IF THIS ACTUALLY -- IF ROE V. WADE IS OVERTURNED, MINNESOTA WILL BE AN ISLAND THEN IN A SENSE.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: WOULD YOU ACTIVELY WELCOME INDIVIDUALS SEEKING ABORTION IN MINNESOTA?

>> WE'LL ALWAYS WELCOME PEOPLE TO GET THEIR HEALTHCARE, WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE.

I'M VERY PROUD, MINNESOTA, OUR SURROUNDING STATES, WE HAVE THE LOWEST PREGNANCY RATES.

IF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ON THIS, WORK ON UNWANTED PREGNANCIES, WORK N THIS ISSUES THAT ARE THERE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS, BY CRIMINALIZING BEHAVIORS, TAKING A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO TAKE CARE OF HER OWN BODY.

WE WELCOME PEOPLE WHO WANT THE BEST CARE, BEST DECISION MAKING.

>> Eric: YOU HAD BREAKFAST WITH LEADERS.

GRAND BARGAIN IN THE OFFING, ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE TO JUST PEEL PARTS OF OMNIBUS BILLS AND PASS THEM AS YOU GO?

>> YOU KNOW, E HAVE -- FIRST, I WOULD SAY, AT STATE OF THE STATE TWO WEEKS AGO, ASKED US TO GET SOME IMMEDIATE WORK DONE.

THEY DID IT.

THEY CAME TOGETHER FOR GREAT COMPROMISE, I THINK IT WAS GOOD FOR MINNESOTA, THE U.I.

TRUST FUND WAS REPLENISHED, SMALL BUSINESSES TAKEN CARE OF, FRONT-LINE WORKERS, THEY GAVE MONEY, CASES WERE UP, ALL THOSE THINGS BODE WELL.

>> Cathy: THAT DEAL WAS PRETTY DOABLE EARLY IN SESSION, WASN'T IT?

>> HE WHY.

>> Cathy: WHY DIDN'T IT GET DONE?

>> DEADLINES MATTER.

THEY KEPT SAYING, APRIL 30th IS THE DEADLINE, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MARCH 15th BECAUSE BUSINESSES STARTED TO PAY.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, IT PROVED WE COULD GET IT DONE.

I WAS MENTIONING THE BREAKFAST WE HAD, IT WAS REALLY ENJOYABLE.

THESE ARE SMART PEOPLE, FUNNY PEOPLE, TRYING TO GET THINGS DONE.

WE HAD THE LEADERS THERE.

SOME OF THE STAFF.

I THINK THERE'S EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THERE MAY BE A BIG COMPROMISE AT THE END, BUT I DO APPRECIATE, LIKE TODAY, WE HAD A VETERANS PACKAGE THAT I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR FOR SOME TIME, THAT THING PASSED, I THINK IT HAD ONE DISSENTING VOTE IS ALL, I'LL SIGN THAT.

THEY ARE TAKING CARE OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE LOW-HANGING FRUIT AND I THINK AT THE END, YOU'LL SEE A COMPROMISE.

WE NEED TO INVEST IN EDUCATION.

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO RETURN SOME MONEY BACK TO HE TAXPAYERS.

>> Cathy: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT TOO, BECAUSE YOU SAID LAST WEEK, I THINK, THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU TO GET THE REBATE CHECKS PASSED.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: SO, WHY WON'T DFLers, YOUR COLLEAGUES, THEY DON'T SEEM VERY INTERESTED IN IT.

>> WELL, I THINK THE ONE THING IS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BRING THAT TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE.

I'M CARRYING THE WATER ON IT.

THAT'S THE THING.

SO THEY KNOW THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS A SET OF PACKAGES THAT HE WANTS TO GET, I'M GOING TO GET SOME OF THOSE THINGS, THE HOUSE WANTS TO GET SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

I THINK THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT LONG-TERM ECONOMIC STABILITY, THAT'S WHY YOU DO ONE-TIME SPENDING, BUT I'VE SAID IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN, I'M OPEN TO THE PROPOSALS, THE HOUSE HAS A CHILD CARE -- CHILD TAX CREDIT, IT'S SMART, I LIKE IT.

>> Eric: I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE ON STATEWIDE IT TV, BUT I WONDER, I WONDER, IF YOU SAID TO THEM, YOU KNOW, A WALZ CHECK IS A MUST-HAVE FOR ME, AND THAT WILL BE THE PRICE TO GET A BONDING BILL, SAY.

>> THIS IS HOW SOME OF THIS WORKS.

BUT I THINK FOR ME, IT'S NOT WHAT I ANT TO GET, IT'S WHAT I THINK MINNESOTANS ARE SAYING, AND WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM.

I THINK RIGHT NOW WITH INFLATIONARY PRESSURES, MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF MINNESOTANS RIGHT NOW MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

IT ALSO DOESN'T PUT US IN A LONG-TERM POTENTIAL DEFICIT SITUATION, WHICH WE'VE SEEN BEFORE, BY CUTTING PERMANENT TAX CUTS THAT ARE TOO DEEP.

BUT I'M CERTAINLY OPEN O THEM.

AND I THINK, AS LONG AS TRADING THINGS, AS LONG AS IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF MINNESOTA.

>> Eric: THERE WILL HAVE TO BE A TAX CUT WITH A $9 BILLION PLUS SURPLUS.

>> I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

I DO.

BUT I THINK, AGAIN, THIS SURPLUS WAS CREATED A LOT BY CONSUMER SPENDING DURING COVID.

THESE WERE TAX COLLECTIONS FROM BUSINESSES AND A LOT OF THAT.

SO A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE TIME.

BUT I ALSO DO AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK ESPECIALLY NOW WITH WORKING MINNESOTANS, THERE'S ROOM FOR THAT IN THERE.

>> Cathy: WHERE IS PUBLIC SAFETY?

I MEAN, WE -- >> TOP PRIORITY.

IT'S A TOP PRIORITY.

AND I THINK YOU SEE THIS, WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, HERE IN MINNESOTA WE'RE DEALING WITH IT.

>> Eric: YOU TOURED THE STATE, TALKED TO LOCAL OFFICIALS, LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> YES.

>> Eric: WHAT WAS THE CONSENSUS?

>> THE CONSENSUS IS IT'S DIFFERENT IN EACH LOCATION, BUT THEY WANT TO BE IN CONTROL OF HOW THIS IS DONE.

THEY, BEING THE COMMUNITY, THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS, COMMUNITY GROUPS TOGETHER.

AND WE MADE THE PROPOSAL OF $300 MILLION TO THEM.

IF THAT MEANS HIRING MORE POLICE, THEN YOU HIRE MORE POLICE.

IF IT MEANS HIRING MORE 911 DISPATCHERS, YOU IRE MORE 911 DISPATCHERS, IF IT MEANS MORE SOCIAL WORKERS.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONSENSUS AROUND THIS.

BUT IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.

IN DULUTH, THEY TALK MORE ABOUT EQUIPMENT.

NEU IN NEW ULM THEY TALKED ABOUT BEING SENSITIVE TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ISSUES, HOW DO WE TREAT THEM.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT WHERE IT'S AT.

OBVIOUSLY WHERE YOU GET HIGHER POPULATION DENSITIES, WE'RE SEEING SOME OF THESE CARJACKING ISSUES THAT ARE A MAJOR CONCERN TO MINNESOTANS.

SO I THINK WE TRIAGE THAT, BUT WE PUT A PACKAGE TOGETHER, LETS COMMUNITIES GO BACK UPSTREAM TO TRY AND IS TO '-- STOP SOME OF THIS.

MA MIGHT BE -- THAT MIGHT BE YOUTH INTERVENTION POLICIES.

GIVE THEM THE RESOURCES, LET THEM MOVE.

>> Cathy: BUT THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS SENDING SOME STATE TROOPERS AND BCA AGENTS TO MINNEAPOLIS.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT MOVE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S ONE, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

OUR PROFESSIONALS RE THERE TO HELP.

MINNEAPOLIS' ABILITY TO HIRE OFFICERS, WE THOUGH, HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT -- WE KNOW, HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT LIMITED.

WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH THOSE THINGS.

I THANK THE CITY FOR TRYING TO APPROACH THAT WITH REFORMS IN MIND BUT WITH ALSO PUBLIC SAFETY.

IT'S NOT ONE OR HE OTHER.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, IS TRY AND PROVIDE THE SUPPORT THAT WE CAN DO.

I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT, WE HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF STATE TROOPERS, WE'VE ALL SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY AGAIN, TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS ARE WAY UP, SPEEDING, STREET RACING, SOME OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

IF WE'RE ABLE TO ASSIST, WE WANT TO BE GOOD ASSISTS IN THAT.

WE'RE WORKING NOW, WE'VE GOT A U.S. ATTORNEY THAT IS ALL ON BOARD.

THIS IS ABOUT PARTNERSHIPS WORKING TOGETHER.

SO WHETHER IT'S CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS, HENNEPIN COUNTY, STATE, FEDERAL, AND SOME OF THESE PARTNERSHIPS WITH SURROUNDING AREAS, BECAUSE NO ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES IS AN ISLAND.

SO IT'S A TOP PRIORITY.

AND I THINK YOU SEE A LOT OF CROSSOVER, WHETHER IT'S RECRUITING AND RETENTION, OR SOME COMMUNITY HELP, OUSE, SENATE AND OUR BUDGET HAVE A LOT IN COMMON.

I THINK THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS, I REALLY THINK WITH ALL THE TOURS THAT I DID, IT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE TO GET THIS MONEY RIGHT BACK INTO THOSE COMMUNITIES.

THEY TELL ME THAT THAT'S THE WAY TO GO.

>> Eric: WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THE FISHING OPENER?

DOWNSIZED, PECULATION THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT PROTESTERS UP IN NORTHWEST MINNESOTA.

>> IF I WERE CONCERNED ABOUT PROTESTERS, I WOULD NOT LIVE IN THE HOUSE I'M IN, BECAUSE THEY'RE THERE EVERY NIGHT.

NO, THE SITUATION WAS, WITH COVID, THESE THINGS TAKE A LOT OF PLANNING.

WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE'VE ALWAYS PLANNED.

WHAT THE SITUATION WAS, IS COMMUNITIES BID ON THESE.

COSTS THEM ABOUT $100,000.

WELL, THEY HAVE TO DO THAT LAST AUGUST AND NOVEMBER.

WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, JANUARY, AND FEBRUARY.

WE HAD A OVID SURGE WITH DELTA AND OMICRON.

SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE MAYBE THE BIG BANQUET THAT WAS DONE.

BUT ALL THE OTHER ACTIVITIES ARE GOING ON.

SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, WHEN SOMEONE SAID, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T WANT TO GO TO THAT, I'LL TELL YOU, THE ONLY THING I REALLY WANT TO DO IS GO FISHING RIGHT NOW.

SO I ENJOY IT.

I'VE DONE IT MY WHOLE LIFETIME I'M NOT GREAT AT IT.

BUT I THINK ONE OF THE HINGS, AND I WOULD JUST MENTION ON THIS, I WANT TO THANK THE FOLKS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS, THERE'S A NEW GROUP CALLED MN FISH THAT IS REALLY PUSHING THE ISSUE OF THE STATE TO MAKE MORE INVESTMENTS IN THINGS LIKE OUR HATCHERIES, PUBLIC BOAT LAUNCHES.

>> Cathy: LIKE WISCONSIN DOES.

>> YEAH, IT'S AN $8 BILLION INDUSTRY HERE, AND WHETHER THAT IS CLAM THAT MAKES THE ICE FISHING HOUSES AND LURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, OR WHETHER IT'S HOTELS, WHERE PEOPLE COME IN, OR A BIG COMPANY LIKE CABELA'S, IT GENERATES 90,000 JOBS, AND ALL OF THE ENJOYMENT WE GET OUT OF IT, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS, WHY AREN'T YOU INVESTING IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE MORE THAN -- AND THEY'RE NOT WRONG.

WE SHOULD BE.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS.

AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE BEEN ON SINCE, I THINK, WHAT, FEBRUARY, SO WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

OBVIOUSLY THE MINNEAPOLIS TEACHERS STRIKE HAS COME AND GONE.

AND AS A FORMER TEACHER, I WAS WONDERING WHY YOU NEVER TOOK A STAND ON THE TEACHERS STRIKE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

>> IT'S NOT THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNOR TO GET INVOLVED.

I HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ON THIS.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO KEEP A THUMB ON THERE.

BUT I THINK THE VALUES THAT WERE BEING EXPRESSED THERE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR SCHOOLS ARE FULLY FUNDED, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STUDENTS GET THE SERVICES THEY NEED AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THOSE TEACHERS BEING TAKEN CARE OF AS THEY WORK WITH FAMILIES ON THIS.

SO WE'RE HEAVILY INVOLVED, BUT I THINK IT'S -- YOU KNOW, LETTING THESE THINGS WORK OUT.

A GOVERNOR CAN'T GET NVOLVED IN EVERY STRIKE OR LABOR DEBATE, BUT I THINK I'VE ARTICULATED PRETTY CLEARLY, WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THAT, IF WE WOULD HAVE INVESTED THE WAY WE NEEDED TO, AND YOU'RE SEEING IT IN DISTRICTS, AND IT CAN STRETCH FROM BRAINERD TO MANKATO, THEY'RE FEELING THE PRESSURES.

>> Eric: YOU WERE PART OF A LEGISLATIVE BODY IN WASHINGTON.

A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, YOU DON'T SIGN OR VETO IT.

WHERE ARE YOU ON THIS YEAR-ROUND LEGISLATURE PROPOSAL?

>> MAN, IT'S HARD ENOUGH FOR ME WHEN THEY'RE JUST HERE FROM JANUARY TO MAY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK IT'S HARD.

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THESE ARE CITIZEN LEGISLATORS AND I THINK THAT'S A VERY APPEALING THING TO PEOPLE.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S VERY VERY HARD ON THEM.

NEU AND I HOPE PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT, WHEREVER YOU ARE ON YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY.

THESE ARE SMART, PASSIONATE FOLKS WHO COME THERE.

AND TRY AND WORK.

AND I THINK WHAT'S ASKED OF THEM, IT'S ABOUT YEAR ROUND.

AND I HEAR THAT, THEY SAY, GOVERNOR, YOU DOE THIS YEAR ROUND SO YOU'RE OUT THERE EVERY DAY, EVERY MONTH DOING THAT.

AND WE COME IN HERE, WE NEED TO GO BACK HOME ON THE WEEKENDS BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING BUSINESSES, WE'RE PLAYING BASEBALL WITH OUR KIDS, WE'RE DOING ALL THAT.

SO IT'S NOT REALLY MY POINT TO WEIGH IN.

THE ONLY THING I WOULD TELL MINNESOTANS IS, THESE FOLKS REALLY O WORK REALLY HARD AND THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS POSSIBLE.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD IN THAT AMOUNT OF IME ND THE STATE IS NOW NEARLY 6 MILLION PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, 52 BILLION-DOLLAR BUDGETS, THERE'S A LOT TO MANAGE THAT STAYED THE SAME SINCE WE HAD A STATE OF 2 MILLION PEOPLE AND A MUCH SMALLER BUDGET.

>> Eric: REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING BY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

ALL THE BEST.

>> THANKS.

♪♪ [ OMINOUS MUSIC ] >> Mary: YOU WEREN'T AFRAID TO REINVENT YOURSELF, THOUGH, REPEATEDLY THROUGHOUT THIS POLITICAL CAREER AND IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE.

>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS, YOU HAVE TO SEE THE FUTURE AND GO THERE.

THAT'S IN MY MIND THE MARK OF A GOOD LEGISLATORMENT YOU -- LEGISLATOR.

YOU CAN'T JUST GET STUCK IN TODAY.

>> HERE WE ARE, PREPARED AND READY TO LEAD.

>> Mary: I'M NOT SURE I'VE EVER SEEN YOU HAPPIER WHEN YOU ANNOUNCED THAT THE REPUBLICANS TOOK BACK CONTROL OF THE MAJORITY.

IS THAT ALSO ONE OF YOUR BIGGEST AND BEST MEMORIES.

>> THAT HAPPENED IN 2010.

IN 2007, I BECAME INORITY LEADER, DIDN'T EVEN VOTE FOR MYSELF.

WE WERE 21 MEMBERS, THEY WERE 46.

HOW DO YOU DO THIS?

I KEPT BELIEVING, FIRST TIME IN 38 YEARS, WE'RE THE MAJORITY IN THE MINNESOTA SENATE.

FIRST TIME IN LEGISLATIVE PARTISAN HISTORY THAT WE WERE.

SUBSEQUENTLY, IT'S SPATTERED BACK AND FORTH.

♪♪ >> CATHY: COVID CASES ARE AGAIN GOING UP IN OUR REGION, THOUGH MOST CASES APPARENTLY ARE MILD.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE NUMBERS AND HIS ONGOING WORRIES ABOUT LONG COVID, MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

HE HEADS THE U OF M'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

WELCOME BACK.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Cathy: WELL, 21 MINNESOTA COUNTIES, ACCORDING TO THE CDC, ARE LISTED AS MODERATE TO HIGH COVID RISK.

ARE WE LOOKING AT ANOTHER SURGE?

>> WELL, IN A SENSE, WE DO HAVE ANOTHER SURGE OF CASES.

BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING ANOTHER SURGE OF HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS THAT HAVE MATCHED WITH THE CASE NUMBERS FROM THE PAST.

I WOULD ACTUALLY ADD THAT I THINK THAT THE CASE NUMBERS WE'RE SEEING ARE A MAJOR UNDERREPORT OF WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE COMMUNITIES.

WE KNOW THAT MANY MANY PEOPLE TODAY ARE TESTING WITH AT-HOME TEST THAT NEVER REPORT THEIR CASES TO THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT OR LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND, SO, CASE NUMBERS ARE HIGHER, BUT THE RELIABLE NUMBERS FROM HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS GIVE US SOME REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC.

>> Eric: WHAT INFORMATION OR WHAT RESEARCH DO YOU HAVE THAT IS TALKING ABOUT LONG COVID?

>> WELL, AT THIS POINT, LONG COVID IS JUST A STARK REALITY OF THE ENTIRE PANDEMIC.

WE'RE CONTINUING TO SEE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE MILD TO MODERATE ALL THE WAY TO VERY SERIOUS DISEASE DEVELOPING LONG COVID.

THE ESTIMATES NOW RUN BETWEEN 5 AND 30% OF ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INFECTED DEVELOP LONG COVID.

I HAPPEN TO PERSONALLY AVE FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES WHO HAD RELATIVELY MILD ILLNESSES WITH THEIR INITIAL COVID INFECTION AND THEN TWO TO THREE WEEKS LATER CONTINUED TO DEVELOP MORE AND MORE PROGRESSIVE FATIGUE, BRAIN FOG, SOME CASES HEART PROBLEMS, LUNG PROBLEMS, AND, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR, FIVE MONTHS OUT, THEY'RE STILL LARGELY UNABLE TO WORK.

I DON'T THINK WE REALLY HAVE A GOOD HANDLE YET ON HAT THE LONG TAIL OF THIS SITUATION IS.

AND I MUST COME BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT ABOUT THE SURGE IN CASES AND SAY THAT AS I'VE SAID ON THIS PROGRAM NOW FOR I THINK 27 MONTHS, YOU KNOW, THIS VIRUS CONTINUES TO JUST THROW 200-MILE-AN-HOUR CURVE BALLS AT US.

AND WHILE THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WE'RE HAVING MORE MILDER CASES DUE TO, IN PART, THE PROTECTION THAT WE HAVE FROM HAVING BEEN VACCINATED OR PREVIOUSLY BEEN INFECTED AND DEVELOPED IMMUNITY, WE ARE SEEING EVEN WITH THESE VARIANTS, THE FACT THAT WE'RE LOSING THAT IMMUNITY, WANING IMMUNITY, AND MOST OF ALL, REMEMBER, WE'RE OMICRON, IN THE GREEK ALPHABET, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A PI, SIGMA, NEW VARIANTS.

AND WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THOSE COULD BE LIKE, THEY COULD REWRITE THE ENTIRE GAME.

WHILE WE ALL WANT TO GET OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR US.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO GET BACK TO LONG COVID FOR JUST A MOMENT, IF I COULD.

>> SURE.

>> Cathy: BECAUSE I THINK THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T PROBABLY UNDERSTAND THE RISKS OF THAT, YOU KNOW, THE POTENTIAL FOR DEVELOPING IT.

HOW ABOUT YOU, PERSONALLY, WHAT ARE YOU TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WHEN IT COMES TO RISK?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M AN OLD MAN.

I'M AT HIGHER RISK FOR SERIOUS ILLNESS, OSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS.

THE GOOD NEWS, I'VE HAD FOUR DOSES OF VACCINE, AND I CAN AVAIL MYSELF TO THE ANTIVIRALS BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO GET THROUGH THE SYSTEM.

I'VE ACTUALLY SPENT THIS WEEK HELPING A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS IN THIS STATE WHO WERE INFECTED, WHO ARE AT HIGH RISK FOR SERIOUS ILLNESS TRY TO NAVIGATE MINNESOTA'S MEDICAL CARE SYSTEM TO GET TREATMENT.

AND THEY WERE HAVING A HELL OF A TIME.

AND EVEN I HAD A HARD TIME GETTING IT FOR THEM.

BUT I'LL GET IT.

BUT WHAT I FEAR, REALLY, IS LONG COVID.

AND, SO, TO ME, I'M STILL TAKING A GREAT DEAL OF PRECAUTIONS.

RIGHT NOW I'M USING MY RESPIRATOR WHEN I'M IN PUBLIC SETTINGS.

I'M NOT ON YOUR SHOW YET BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT I'M NOT OUT DOING THAT KIND OF EVENTS RIGHT NOW.

AND, YOU KNOW, SOME WOULD SAY, WELL, THAT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE, WHY ARE YOU LIVING YOUR LIFE LIKE THAT?

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET LONG COVID.

AND ALL WE CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT AS TIME GOES ON WITH THESE VIRUSES AS HE CHANGE, THEY -- AS THEY CHANGE, THEY ACTUALLY CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, NOT FOR THE WORSE.

BUT FOR THE TIME BEING, WE'RE STUCK IN A WORLD WHERE LONG COVID IS A REAL REALITY FROM GETTING INFECTED WITH THIS VIRUS.

REMEMBER, JUST TODAY, WE REPORTED 2,300 NEW CASES IN THE STATE.

YOU KNOW, IF ONLY 5% OF THOSE PEOPLE GET LONG COVID, THINK OF THAT.

BUT IF IT'S AS HIGH AS 30%, THINK OF WHAT WE JUST ADDED TO THE LEDGERS TODAY OF LONG COVID IN THIS STATE.

THIS IS GOING TO HAVE LONG TAILS.

VERY LONG TAILS.

>> Cathy: BY THE WAY, WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE FOR FOLKS, THE CDC, OF COURSE, FOR FOLKS 50 PLUS, YOU MAY GET A BOOSTER SHOT.

DOESN'T SAY WHEN.

WHAT'S YOUR BEST ADVICE WHEN IT COMES TO TIMING OF MAYBE THAT SECOND BOOSTER OR THE FIRST BOOSTER, OR THAT MATTER?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME BE REAL CLEAR THAT WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROPOSED THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THIS VIRUS IS GOING TO DO IN THE NEXT THREE, FOUR, FIVE WEEKS, UP TO THREE, FOUR, FIVE MONTHS FROM NOW.

SOME WILL SAY, WELL, WAIT AND GET YOUR BOOSTER LATER ON BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FALL WAVE.

NO, GET IT NOW, IN THE SUMMER WAVE.

YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE PREDICTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING RIGHT NOW ARE LARGELY BASED ON PIXIE DUST.

WE DON'T KNOW.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW.

SO, TO ME, I WORRY THAT RIGHT NOW WE COULD HAVE THE INCREASE NUMBER OF CASES THAT YOU WANT TO BE PROTECTED FROM.

SO I SAY, GET IT RIGHT AWAY.

I HAVE MY FOURTH DOSE.

I GOT IT MORE THAN FOUR MONTHS AFTER MY THIRD DOSE.

AND I'D RECOMMEND ANYONE OUT THERE, 50 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER, GET IT.

HAVING SAID THAT, I UNDERSTAND THE REALITY THAT WE CAN'T KEEP BOOSTING OUR WAY OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD TWO DOSES OF VACCINE, ONLY 45% OF THEM WENT ON AND GOT A THIRD DOSE, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY CLEARLY STATED WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU THINK THAT NUMBER'S GOING TO BE ANY HIGHER WITH THE FOURTH DOSE?

SO I DON'T THINK A OT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET THE BOOSTER DOSES, EVEN THOUGH I THINK THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT.

AND I DO ALSO RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, THAT WE CAN'T KEEP BOOSTING OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.

AND THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO DEVELOP AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE NEW AND BETTER VACCINES THAN THE ONES WE EVEN HAVE NOW.

>> Eric: BOTTOM LINE ON MASK USE?

>> YOU KNOW, I'M A VERY VERY VERY STRONG SUPPORTER OF RESPIRATORY PROTECTION BUT IT'S GOT TO BE ADEQUATE POINT OF PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE SPREX -- RESPIRATORY, IT HAS TO BE THE N-95, CLOTH COVERING, SURGICAL MASK, IT'S BASIC, AS I'VE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN, IT'S LIKE HAVING A SUBMARINE WHY YOU -- WHERE YOU SHUT THREE OF THE FIVE DOORS WHEN YOU TAKE OFF IF IT LEAKS, IT'S NOT GOING TO PROTECT YOU.

IF YOU WEAR IT UNDER YOUR NOSE, IT'S NOT GOING TO PROTECT YOU.

IF YOU'RE ON AN AIRPLANE, YOU'RE IN A RESTAURANT, I CAN TAKE IT OFF WHILE I EAT, AS IF THE VIRUS IS GOING TO TAKE A VACATION WHILE YOU'RE EATING.

RIGHT.

NO.

YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WEAR IT.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF WHAT I WOULD CALL SUPER SPREADER EVENTS, I'M AWARE OF ONES RIGHT HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES METROPOLITAN AREA, NOT JUST AT THE WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS OR THE GRIDIRON.

AND, AGAIN, IT'S PEOPLE WHO HAD NO IDEA THEY WERE IN A CROWD OF INDIVIDUALS WHO THEY THOUGHT WERE NOT INFECTED, THEY WERE, AND WE'VE SEEN SOME OF THESE SUPER SPREADER EVENTS WITH LITERALLY TENS AND TENS OF CASES, IF NOT MORE.

SO, I WEAR MY RESPIRATORY PROTECTION, I'M FULLY VACCINATED.

AND I JUST WANT THIS PANDEMIC TO GET OVER WITH, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

>> Cathy: YEAH.

WE HEAR THAT.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

THANKS, TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> ERIC: AFTER THE SHOCKWAVES OF THE LEAKED DRAFT OPINION FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, MANY LEARNED MINNESOTA HAS ITS OWN HISTORIC CASE REGARDING THE RIGHT TO ABORTION.

IN 1995 THE MINNESOTA SUPREME COURT RULED THAT THERE IS A RIGHT TO ABORTION UNDER OUR STATE CONSTITUTION.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER SAT DOWN WITH ONE OF THE DECIDING VOICES ON THE STATE SUPREME COURT DECISION.

RETIRED JUSTICE PAUL ANDERSON TALKED WITH MARY ABOUT THAT 1995 STATE SUPREME COURT CASE AND ABOUT THIS WEEK'S CONSEQUENTIAL SUPREME COURT LEAK.

>> Mary: DOES THIS ENTIRE SITUATION, THE LEAKING, THE OPINION, EVERYTHING TAINT THE COURT SOMEHOW?

>> YES.

NOW YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT A TAINTED COURT WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS.

HE VERY MUCH HONORS ND WANTS TO BE PROTECTIVE OF THE INSTITUTION OF THE COURT.

HE GETS KNOWN AS THE ROBERTS' COURT.

>> Mary: RIGHT, UT IT'S UNDER HIS WATCH THIS HAPPENS.

>> IT'S UNDER HIS WATCH AND IT'S BECOME TAINTED.

WE HAVE A LEAK ON ONE OF THE MOST PROMINENT CASES IN THE HISTORY COMING TO THE COURT.

AND IT HAS FROM ROBERTS' POINT OF VIEW AND FROM EVERYBODY'S POINT OF VIEW, JUST REALLY DIMINISHED THE REPUTATION OF THE COURT.

SO IT'S HUGE.

>> Mary: IS THE COURT SEEN AS A POLITICAL ARM NOW AND NOT A NONPARTISAN BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT?

>> WELL, IT'S IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

>> Mary: WESHT PROBABLY TALK -- WE SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT YOUR POLITICS.

WHAT YOU -- WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEY ARE?

>> WELL, I STARTED OUT AS A LINCOLN, TEDDY ROOSEVELT, STASSEN EISENHOWER REPUBLICAN.

>> Mary: APPOINTED BY A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

>> APPOINTED BY A REPUBLICAN.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT YOUR MODERN HISTORY?

>> I'M NOT A REPUBLICAN ANYMORE.

THEY HAVE LEFT ME.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT OUR COURT, DO YOU THINK IN YOUR TIME ON THE COURT AND THE CURRENT COURT, SOMEHOW IN MINNESOTA WE'VE MAINTAINED NONPARTISANSHIP?

>> I THINK THAT WE'VE DONE A GOOD JOB.

IN MINNESOTA.

THE COURT IS POPULATED BY HUMAN BEINGS WITH THEIR OWN VIEWS.

>> Mary: LET'S GO BACK TO THE LEAK.

IT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED BY A LOT OF NATIONAL PRESS AS UNPRECEDENTED.

YOU TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF ISSUE WITH THAT.

>> I DO.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> IT'S NOT -- IN THE PUREST FORM OF THE TERM, UNPRECEDENTED, IT IS NOT.

LEAKS HAVE HAPPENED.

THEY'VE HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

THE NATURE OF THIS CASE, THE DYNAMICS BEHIND IT, AND THE IMPACT, AND, SO, FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, THE IMPACT OF THIS LEAK IS PROBABLY UNPRECEDENTED IN ITS SCOPE.

>> Mary: THE PERSON WHO LEAKED IT, DOES IT MATTER?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY -- >> Mary: ROBERTS SAID HE'S LAUNCHING AN INVESTIGATION.

OF DOES IT MATTER TO KNOW WHO HE SOURCE IS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHOEVER LEAKED IT HAS TO BE MADE KNOWN.

THE COURTS MAKE LAWS THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO FOLLOW.

JUSTICES NEED TO EXPLORE ALL THE NUANCES OF THE LAW AND SEE WHERE THEY'RE RIGHT OR CORRECT.

IN RDER TO DO THAT, THEY HAVE TO FUNCTION IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY CAN SPEAK THEIR MIND AND BE FREE TO MAKE A MISTAKE, EVEN BE FREE TO LOOK FOOLISH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE EXPLORING IDEAS.

AND SO, IF THOSE DISCUSSIONS WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THAT BECOME PUBLIC OR WHATEVER, GIVEN THE ENVIRONMENT TODAY, THEY WOULD BE CRUCIFIED FOR -- BUT, NO, THAT'S HOW WE REACH A CONCLUSION.

>> Mary: AND THIS IS HOW YOU AND YOUR COURT OPERATED AS WELL, ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

>> H, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Mary: YOU WOULD SHARE DRAFT OPINIONS, THEY WOULD BE DISSEMINATED ELECTRONICALLY.

THIS IS ALL VERY FAMILIAR TO YOU, RIGHT?

>> OH, VERY FAMILIAR.

THE FACT IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YOU -- NOW, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH ALITO'S OPINION?

IT'S A PRELIMINARY DRAFT.

OKAY.

NOW, IF IT GETS CHANGED, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, THE COURT IS REACTING TO PUBLIC.

NO.

YOU DO A DRAFT.

AND SOMETIMES YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OVER THE TOP, YOU GET A LITTLE STRIDENT.

>> Mary: IS THAT HOW THIS DRAFT LOOKS TO YOU?

>> OH, YEAH, THERE'S MUCH THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE AND STRIDENT, WHICH I AM ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED THAT WHEN IT'S FULLY CIRCULATED, OTHER JUSTICES ON THE COURT WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, DON'T DO THIS.

>> Mary: THIS NOW FALLS TO THE STATES, POTENTIALLY.

AND YOU KNOW ABOUT OUR STATE CASE.

>> WHICH CASE OULD THAT BE?

>> Mary: THIS IS DOUGH V. GOMEZ.

>> REALLY?

I'M NOT SURE I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT ONE.

[ Laughter ] >> Mary: I BELIEVE YOU MIGHT BE.

WHAT SAY YOU?

DOES THAT STAND AS A STRONG CASE HERE IN INNESOTA?

>> IT IS A STRONG CASE.

NOT WELL WRITTEN.

>> Mary: WAS THE COURT RATHER UNITED ON THAT BEHIND THE SCENES?

>> YES.

>> Mary: OKAY.

>> WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GENE COIN, SEVEN OF US, AND THERE WERE FIVE OF US VERY SOLIDLY IN THE CAMP OF, THIS IS ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO TROMP ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

OF >> Mary: DID YOU HAVE A SENSE AT THE TIME THAT THIS COULD BE INSTRUMENTAL IF ROE V. WADE WERE REPEALED?

>> DOUGH VS. GOMEZ IS ASED ON STATE CONSTITUTION.

DOE VS. GOMEZ.

STATES CANNOT LIMIT ANY RIGHTS MORE THAN WHAT ARE LIMITED AND SET IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

8 >> Mary: THERE'S MUCH TALK ABOUT LEGISLATURES NOW IN REACTION NEEDING TO CODIFY.

DO WE NEED TO DO THAT IN MINNESOTA BECAUSE ISN'T A COURT PRECEDENT HIGHER THAN ANY CODIFICATION A LEGISLATIVE BODY COULD DO?

>> YEAH.

THEY CAN'T OVERTURN.

DOE VS. GOMEZ WAS A VERY HARD DECISION.

I MEAN, THE RESULT, TO MY MIND, WAS CLEAR.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T A VERY DIFFICULT AND HARD DECISION TO DO.

♪♪ >> CATHY: IF ROE V WADE IS STRUCK DOWN THIS SUMMER, STATE LAWS AND STATE COURTS WILL DETERMINE WHERE AND HOW ABORTIONS TAKE PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY.

UP NEXT, WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT AND THE POLITICS OF THE SUPREME COURT DECISION.

TO HELP US DO THAT, TWO WOMEN WHO HAVE WORKED ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THIS ISSUE FOR DECADES.

EMBER REICHGOTT JUNGE IS A DEMOCRAT, A LAWYER AND A FORMER STATE SENATOR.

ANNETTE MEEKS IS A REPUBLICAN AND A FORMER CONGRESSIONAL AIDE TO NEWT GINGRICH.

SHE HEADS THE FREEDOM FOUNDATION OF MINNESOTA.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR INVITING ME.

>> Cathy: SENATOR REICHGOTT JUNGE, SINCE YOU ARE IN STUDIO, WE'LL BEGIN WITH YOU.

I'M CURIOUS, WAS ROE V. WADE WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE?

SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN LEFT UP TO ELECTED OFFICIALS TO TAKE CARE OF THIS INSTEAD OF REACHING THE COURTS?

>> WE'RE TALKING NOW ABOUT A PRECEDENT OF 50 YEARS THAT HAS BEEN REAFFIRMED VERY OFTEN ON THE EDERAL LEVEL.

SO I DON'T THINK IT WAS WRONG.

AND, IN FACT, WHAT I'M THINKING NOW IS HAPPENING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT THE DRAFT OPINION THAT IS BEFORE US, IF YOU NOTICE, THERE IS VERY LITTLE LEGAL REASONING IN THAT.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE'S SAYING, THEY WERE WRONG, AND WE ARE RIGHT.

AND THAT'S REALLY A POLITICAL DECISION.

AND THE PROBLEM IS, THEY'RE TAKING AWAY THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY, SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN IN THERE FOR 50 YEARS.

THAT'S ALSO SUPPORTED THE RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE WITH SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, FOR CONTRACEPTION, PROTECTS PEOPLE AGAINST PREGNANCY COMPLICATIONS, MISCARRIAGES AND LAWS THAT WOULD INTERFERE WITH THAT.

THIS IS A BASIC FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF WOMEN.

>> Eric: ANNETTE, WHY DON'T YOU GET IN HERE AND GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO BE THERE IN PERSON.

BUT I DO HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR SENATOR REICHGOTT JUNGE AND I'M GLAD I CAN PARTICIPATE IN WHATEVER WAY I CAN.

IN HELPING FURTHER CIVIL CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS.

I'M GOING TO QUOTE RUTH BADER GINSBURG, IF YOU WILL.

AND SHE SAID SEVERAL YEARS AGO, IN A SPEECH, THAT ROE APPEARS TO HAVE PROVOKED, NOT RESOLVED CONFLICT OVER THE ISSUE OF ABORTION.

AND I REALLY BELIEVE THAT IS RIGHT.

THERE WAS WONDERFUL EDITORIAL TODAY IN THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" THAT ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE UPHEAVAL THAT WE'VE HAD SINCE JANUARY OF 1973 WHEN THE ROE DECISION WAS HANDED DOWN BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

AND IT TALKED ABOUT THE SOCIAL UPHEAVAL THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE COUNTRY OVER THE ISSUE OF ABORTION AS MBER POINTED OUT FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS.

AND THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED WITH OTHER MAJOR DECISIONS HANDED DOWN BY THE SUPREME COURT.

WHETHER IT WAS SCHOOL DESEGREGATION, PRAYER IN SCHOOLS, GAY MARRIAGE, THOSE WERE ULTIMATELY ACCEPTED BY VAST POPULATION.

REALLY HUGE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION.

AND, YET, ABORTION NEVER HAS.

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF OUR PROBLEM THAT WE'RE STILL WRESTLING WITH AFTER 50 YEARS IS THIS DECISION IS PROBABLY AS VOLATILE TODAY AS IT WAS PRIOR TO 1973 WHEN WE DID ALLOW STATES TO REGULATE ABORTION IN WAYS THEY FELT BEST.

>> Eric: BUT I WONDER IF THE REASON, SENATOR REICHGOTT JUNGE, IS THIS HAS PROFOUND, MORAL AND RELIGIOUS AND ETHICAL, AND NOT TO MENTION POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS.

I WONDER IF THOSE INGREDIENTS MAKE IT TOUGH TO LEGISLATE.

>> IT MAKES IT VERY TOUGH TO LEGISLATE, AND THIS WILL MAKE IT EVEN TOUGHER BECAUSE WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW IS THAT EVERY SINGLE ELECTION COULD CAUSE A CHANGE IN A STATE LEGISLATURE AS TO HOW ACCESS TO ABORTION WILL TAKE PLACE.

IT COULD BE ONE TERM COULD ALLOW ACCESS TO ABORTION, ANOTHER TERM WOULD REPEAL THAT.

SO YOU COULD GO BACK AND FORTH IN STATE LEGISLATURES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

AND THEN AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, WOMEN ARE GOING TO COME AND TRAVEL TO OTHER STATES.

WE IN MINNESOTA ARE GOING TO WELCOME WOMEN FROM ALL AROUND.

BUT MY QUESTION IS, WHAT BURDEN DOES THAT PUT ON OUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS HERE?

WHAT'S THE COST OF THAT?

WHO'S GOING TO PAY THAT?

AND IF WE TREAT, FOR EXAMPLE, A PROVIDER HERE TREATS A TEXAS WOMAN AND A TEXAS PRIVATE CITIZEN DECIDES TO SUE BECAUSE IT CAN DO THAT UNDER THEIR LAW, WHAT PROTECTIONS DO WE HAVE AND WILL THEY WITHSTAND SCRUTINY IN THE COURTS?

>> Cathy: INTERESTS QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, ANNETTE MEEKS, GETTING BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ABORTION BEING OBVIOUSLY A HOT-BUTTON ISSUE, HOW ARE WE TO RECONCILE ALL THE POLLS THAT SHOW THAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS SUPPORT THE RIGHT TO A LEGAL ABORTION?

>> THEY DO, BUT THEY SUPPORT IT WITH RESTRICTIONS.

AND THAT WAS REALLY THE LAW OF THE LAND PRE-ROE VS. WADE BEING HANDED DOWN.

MOST AMERICANS BELIEVE THAT AT A CERTAIN POINT OF VIABILITY, WHICH HAS CHANGED SO DRAMATICALLY IN THE LAST 49 YEARS, THAT THERE MUST BE SOME RESTRICTIONS.

MOST AMERICANS DO NOT SUPPORT ABORTION ON DEMAND, ESPECIALLY MOMENTS BEFORE THAT CHILD IS BORN.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WILL BEFALL THE 7,300 STATE LEGISLATORS AROUND THE COUNTRY, THAT THEY WILL MAKE THESE DECISIONS, AND I HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE THEY'LL REFLECT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IN THEIR STATES.

WE HAVE DIVERSE POPULATIONS.

MINNESOTA IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN CALIFORNIA OR UTAH OR EVEN SOUTH DAKOTA.

AND OF I THINK THAT OUR STATE LEGISLATORS WILL ADEQUATELY REFLECT WHAT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IS.

IF THEY DON'T, THEY WON'T E AROUND MUCH LONGER.

BUT I DO THINK WE'LL HAVE SOME COMMON-SENSE RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION IN MANY MANY STATES, IF NOT MOST.

>> OVERTURNING ROE VS. WADE IS NOT POPULAR IN POLLING THAT WAS RELEASED JUST TODAY.

AND YOU AND I HAVE HEARD ABOUT 70% OVERALL SEEM TO SUPPORT THE DECISION OF ROE VS. WADE.

IN MINNESOTA TODAY, THEY HAD A POLL OF MINNESOTA VOTERS, AND ACROSS ALL GENDERS ND REGIONS AND AGES, THERE WAS A SOLID MAJORITY, 60% SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS IN AT LEAST SOME OR ALL -- MOST OR ALL CASES.

OKAY.

ONLY 14% THOUGHT IT SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL.

AND THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A BIG IMPACT IN OUR POLITICS THIS FALL.

WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE, WE DIDN'T MUCH TALK ABOUT WHETHER WE WERE PRO CHOICE OR NOT.

BUT TODAY, CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO BE OUT THERE BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT BANNING ABORTION, CRIMINALIZING IT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THE TEXAS LAW, THIS POLLING SHOWED THAT 62 TO 64% OF THEM -- OF VOTERS WOULD NOT SUPPORT A CANDIDATE WHO SAYS THAT.

>> Eric: ANNETTE, FROM THE NUMBERS I'VE SEEN, 95% OF ABORTIONS ARE DONE BEFORE THE 15th WEEK.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE MISSISSIPPI STANDARD, 15 WEEKS.

IF THAT'S 95% OF ABORTIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ISN'T THAT -- IF THAT WAS UPHELD ALONE, ISN'T THAT A PRETTY DECENT COMPROMISE OR WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THAT IS A VERY DECENT PROMISE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE POLLING, THERE WAS A CNN POLL RELEASED EARLIER TODAY THAT TALKED ABOUT MOST PEOPLE DO SUPPORT, IT WAS OVER 63% COMMON-SENSE ABORTION LIKE THE MISSISSIPPI LAW THAT'S BEING CHALLENGED.

AND WHEN A BABY CAN FEEL A HEARTBEAT -- OR THE DOCTOR CAN FEEL THE BABY'S HEARTBEAT, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POINT OF VIABILITY, AS IT HAS MOVED BACK AND FORTH -- BACK SO SO MUCH FURTHER THAN IT WAS IN 1973, MOST PEOPLE SUPPORT COMMON-SENSE RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION.

DO I THINK THAT T'S GOING TO BECOME THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE HEADING INTO THIS FALL'S ELECTION?

WELL, IT'S STILL TOO EARLY TO TELL BECAUSE, OF COURSE, BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER SO MANY MORE BOMBSHELLS COULD HAPPEN, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS NOT THE DEFINING ISSUE FOR MOST PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDST OF THE ECONOMY AS IT IS AND SO MANY OTHER THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

DO I THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL PAY ATTENTION TO THIS EVENTUALLY?

YES.

AND I ALSO WOULD HOPE SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON, WHATEVER HAPPENED AT THE SUPREME COURT IS RESOLVED AND THAT THE SUPREME COURT DOES NOT HOLD THIS DECISION UNTIL THE END OF JUNE.

THEY NEED TO RELEASE IT IMMEDIATELY SO THAT WE CAN GET BEYOND THIS ISSUE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND AS EMBER SAID, WE DO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO HEAR FROM OUR CANDIDATES.

WHERE DO THEY STAND ON ABORTION, ESPECIALLY ABORTIONER ON DEMAND?

>> Cathy: QUICK RESPONSE?

>> WELL, THE POLLING DOES SHOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO E A SIGNIFICANT FACTOR IN HE ELECTION FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT ROE VS. WADE.

THAT IS CLEAR.

AND THIS IS A PLANNED PARENTHOOD POLL THAT WAS JUST RELEASED.

I BELIEVE THAT A WEEK AGO REPUBLICANS HAD THE HEAD WINDS.

I BELIEVE NOW, HOWEVER, THAT THE ENTHUSIASM GAP THAT WAS LACKING FOR DEMOCRATS BEFORE HAS NOW BEEN RESOLVED AND YOUNG PEOPLE AND SUBURBAN WOMEN ARE GOING TO COME OUT AND VOTE AND I THINK THAT WILL MAKE A HUGE IMPACT IN THE ELECTIONS THIS FALL FOR LEGISLATURE, GOVERNOR, AND ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> Eric: WE'LL TRACE THAT, OF COURSE, DURING THE SUMMER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Eric: THANK YOU, BOTH, VERY NICE CONVERSATION.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

♪♪ >> A NEW BOOK OUT CALLED 100% DEMOCRACY MAKES A SCANDALOUS PROPOSAL.

CO-AUTHORS MILES RAPOPORT, A FELLOW AT THE HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL AND THE FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE OF CONNECTICUT, AND E.J.

DIONNE OF THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION AND THE WASHINGTON POST, ARGUE THE UNITED STATES SHOULD REQUIRE ALL CITIZENS TO VOTE IN CIVIC ELECTIONS.

IN OTHER WORDS, EVERYONE, IN EVERY STATE, WOULD HAVE NOT JUST THE RIGHT TO VOTE, BUT A DUTY TO PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

THEY EXPLAIN THAT 26 OTHER COUNTRIES ALREADY MANDATE THAT EVERYONE VOTES.

THE RESULT IN PLACES LIKE AUSTRALIA IS THAT MORE THAN 90% OF CITIZENS VOTE IN ELECTIONS.

AS A MINNESOTAN, I'’M OUTRAGED.

AS YOU, DEAR "ALMANAC" VIEWERS ALREADY KNOW, MINNESOTA HAS HIGHER VOTER TURNOUT THAN ANY OTHER STATE.

EVERY YEAR WE LEAD IN VOTER PARTICIPATION.

ABOUT 80% OF ELIGIBLE MINNESOTA VOTERS TURNED OUT IN THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CONTEST, WAY AHEAD OF THE NEXT HIGHEST STATE, COLORADO.

THAT'’S AT LEAST ONE WAY WE'’RE HIGHER THAN COLORADO.

WE'’RE MINNESOTA!

WE'’RE NUMBER ONE!

AND THIS PROPOSAL THAT ALL ELIGIBLE U.S. CITIZENS BE REQUIRED TO VOTE WOULD TAKE THAT AWAY FROM US.

AND WHY?

>> WELL, TANE, BECAUSE IT'’D BE GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.

ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> MILES RAPAPORT AND EJ DIONNE, HOW DID YOU GET HERE?

>> WE WERE TRYING TO SIGN INTO GOAT YOGA ZOOM CLASS AND MUST HAVE GOTTEN THE LINES CROSSED.

>> UNIVERSAL CIVIC VOTING WOULD ALLOW US AS A COUNTRY TO MOVE PAST SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHO GETS TO VOTE AND MAKE IT A SHARED RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY.

FOR EVERYONE.

>> PLUS IT WOULD ENSURE THAT VIRTUALLY ALL U.S. CITIZENS'’ OPINIONS WERE REPRESENTED IN OUR ELECTIONS, AND THAT'’S REALLY WHAT DEMOCRACY SHOULD BE ABOUT.

>> BUT WHAT ABOUT MINNESOTA'’S POSITION AS THE NUMBER ONE STATE FOR VOTER PARTICIPATION?

>> DON'T WORRY, MINNESOTA HAS A LOT OF OTHER THINGS GOING FOR IT.

LIKE YOUR WONDERFUL WARM WEATHER.

>> ALL THOSE GREAT SPORTS TEAMS YOU'’VE GOT THERE.

YOU'’RE STILL NUMBER ONE IN... BASKETBALL?

FOOTBALL?

YOU COULD ROOT FOR MY CELTICS.

>> OH, NO.

>> WHAT MINNESOTANS ARE REALLY GOOD AT IS DOING WHAT'’S RIGHT.

AND MAKING IT SO EVERY CITIZEN CAN AND DOES VOTE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> AND IT'’S ALL AN OPPORTUNITY FOR MINNESOTA TO FIND SOMETHING NEW TO BE NUMBER ONE IN.

LIKE GOAT YOGA.

>> GOAT YOGA?

>> YES, AND THAT REMINDS ME, WE GOTTA GO!

♪♪ >> ERIC: LEGENDARY BLUES PIANO PLAYER CORNBREAD HARRIS IS CELEBRATING HIS 95TH BIRTHDAY TONIGHT WITH A CONCERT PARTY AT THE HOOK AND LADDER THEATER IN MINNEAPOLIS.

AND EACH SUNDAY HE HAS A WEEKLY GIG AT PALMER'S BAR ON CEDAR AVENUE.

A FEW YEARS BACK HARRIS WAS FEATURED ON TPT'S MINNESOTA ORIGINAL ARTS MAGAZINE.

LET'S LISTEN TO A BIT OF THAT INTERVIEW AS WE CHANGE OUT GUESTS.

♪♪ >> I THINK I LIKE MUSIC BETTER THAN ANYTHING -- ICE CREAM, DON'T MATCH.

CORN BREAD, I LIKE CORN BREAD.

BUT THE CORN BREAD I LIKE IS ME.

>> CORN BREAD IN THE MORNING.

[ SINGING ] ♪ PIANO ♪ >> I AM AMES SAMUEL CORN BREAD HARRIS, SR. ♪ CORN READ EVERY NIGHT ♪ >> I HAVE BEEN MAKING MUSIC FOR 65 YEARS.

AND I'M STILL GOIN'.

♪ PIANO APPROXIMATE MUSIC ♪ ♪ PIANO MUSIC ♪ >> I'M PRIMARILY A BLUES MAN.

WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THE BLUES IS THE FEELING OF THE MUSIC.

♪ I FEEL LIKE I CAN CRY ♪ ♪ I FEEL LIKE I CAN CRY ♪ ♪♪ >> ERIC: IT HAD ALWAYS BEEN CONSIDERED POSSIBLE THAT THIS SUPREME COURT WOULD OVERTURN ROE V WADE.

BUT THIS WEEK'S LEAKED DRAFT OPINION HAS RAISED THE STAKES ON WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF ABORTION POLICY WAS DETERMINED BY A CHECKERBOARD OF STATE LAWS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE TOPICS FOR THE NEXT 10 MINUTES WITH A PAIR OF POLITICAL OBSERVERS.

FRITZ KNAAK IS A REPUBLICAN, A LAWYER AND A FORMER LAWMAKER.

ABOU AMARA IS ALSO A LAWYER.

HE'S A DFLER AND FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER.

YOU TWO LEGAL EAGLES, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE ROBERTS COURT LEAKED THIS AS KIND OF A TRIAL BALLOON TO SEE WHAT THE PUBLIC REACTION WOULD BE?

>> OH, WHO KNOWS.

I MEAN, THE SPECULATION, EVEN THE ABA JOURNAL IS SPECULATING AS TO WHO DID IT AND WHY.

I MEAN, THERE'S THE CLASSIC, YOU KNOW, RIGHT WING VIEWPOINT, WHICH IS SOME PHENOMENONIN NAZI ON THE COURT SOMEWHERE ACTUALLY LEAKED IT TO TRY TO SHAME THE MAJORITY AWAY FROM THAT OPINION AND THERE'S AN EQUALLY PLAUSIBLE IDEA OUT THERE THAT THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME EROSION FROM THESE FIVE.

AND THAT ROBERTS MIGHT IN SOME WAY BE TRYING TO INFLUENCE OR PULL THAT MAJORITY OFF OF IT.

AND THAT'S AS EVERY BIT AS PLAUSIBLE AN EXPLANATION.

WE WILL HAVE TO FIND OUT.

>> AS A LAWYER, TAKE A LOOK AT THE INCENTIVES.

IF YOU'RE A LIBERAL, YOU ARE GOING TO FIND OUT A MONTH FROM NOW BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE OPINION WOULD HAVE COME OUT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE INCENTIVES FOR THE RIGHT, THEY ARE TO BOX IN THAT FIVE MAJORITY, THEY ARE TO MAYBE PULL THE IMPACT IT'S HAVING, MAKE SURE YOU MOBILIZE THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT TO DEFEND THIS DECISION.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE INCENTIVES, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE F YOU'RE A SCALIA LAW CLERK TYPE, MORE CONSERVATIVE LAW CLERK TO BE A PART OF IF THAN IT IS IF YOU'RE A SOTOMAYOR LAW CLERK.

>> THAT'S A PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION IN MY MIND, TOO.

>> Cathy: HOW MUCH DAMAGE DID THIS CAUSE TO THE INSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT?

>> I THINK IT CAUSED QUITE A BIT OF DAMAGE, NOT INSURMOUNTABLE, YOU DON'T LIKE TO SEE THAT KIND OF THING HAPPENING.

AND I THINK IT WAS WELL SAID, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE JUSTICE ANDERSON'S COMMENTS EARLIER ABOUT THE DAMAGE, HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO HAVE THAT ABSOLUTE CANDOR AND THE ABILITY TO EXCHANGE.

YOU ARE ON THE STAFF OF THE SUPREME COURT HERE, 'M SURE YOU'D AGREE THAT IT'S JUST A KEY PART OF THE INSTITUTION.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE TIME WE'RE IN.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A RIOT, WHEN THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE JUST A PRO FORMA PASSAGE OF THE TORCH SO TO SPEAK, WE HAD THAT HAPPEN.

NOW WE'VE GOT SOMETHING LIKE.

THIS I'M NOT SAYING THAT ONE IS AS SERIOUS AS THE OTHER.

BUT THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS BREACH AND IT'S SHOWING AN EROSION, I THINK, OF INSTITUTIONS.

>> Eric: YOU CALLED THIS A POTENTIALLY GALVANIZING ISSUE LAST TIME YOU WERE ON, WE WERE SPECULATING WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN.

HOW DO YOU THINK NOW THAT AT LEAST THE DRAFT IS OUT?

>> NOW THAT THE DRAFT IS UT, IT'S CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE WERE THINKING, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO CHECK OUT OF HIS ELECTION.

THAT THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY -- YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TOO HAPPY WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, OR, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY FOLLOWING THE DAY TO AY.

THIS IS A SALIENT ISSUE THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY CAN RECOGNIZE, UNDERSTAND, AND FEEL PERSONALLY.

AND, SO,I THINK IN A WEIRD WAY, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOW HAS A MOMENT BETWEEN NOW AND WHENEVER THE END OF THE SUPREME COURT TERM IS TO REALLY BEGIN TO ARTICULATE A NARRATIVE ABOUT WHY THIS MATTERS AND CONNECT IT TO THE 2022 ELECTION.

>> Cathy: YOU AGREE WITH ANNETTE MEEKS, THIS IS IMPORTANT BUT?

IT'S >> GOING TO CRANK UP THE VOLUME, THAT'S FOR SURE OP BOTH SIDES.

IT'S NOT GOING TO REALLY HAVE AN IMPACT, I THINK, OVERALL ON THE ELECTION.

WHICH IS THE REAL QUESTION.

I THINK THERE'S SOME ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN MOTIVATE LIBERALS TO BE MORE MOTIVATED THAN THEY ARE ALREADY TO VOTE.

AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, ALL OF THE TRANSITION, ALL OF THE CHANGES IN THE ELECTORATE THAT'S HAPPENED 20, 30 YEARS AGO, AND THAT REALLY ISN'T BUDGING ONE OR TWO PERCENTAGE POINTS EITHER WAY.

SO, IT'S STILL ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

WHEN IT'S GETTING POLLED IN THE SUBURBS, AND IT IS ALREADY, NOTHING'S CHANGING.

IT'S STILL THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF WHERE VOTERS ARE AT.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM WHAT I THINK IS GOING TO BE THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE IN THE ELECTION.

>> Eric: WHEN WE HAD GOVERNOR WALZ ON EARLY IN THE SHOW, HE THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS AT LEAST A CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC VIEW THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME MINI MEGA DEAL TO BE HAD HERE OUT OF THE END OF THE SESSION, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, ITS POSSIBLE.

I'M ACTUALLY THINKING THEY'RE GOING TO RUN OUT OF STEAM.

I THINK PART OF -- SPEAKER HORTMAN I THINK HAS DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF STRIKING DEALS.

BEING AS BOLD AS SHE CAN BE BUT ALSO RECOGNIZING THE ART OF THE DEAL THAT THE SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ACCEPT SOME THINGS.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DRAW CONTRAST, AT SOME POINT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TELL THE VOTERS WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO WITH THE $9 BILLION SURPLUS, INVEST IN THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA, BEYOND -- $500 MILLION, THAT'S A SERIOUS NUMBER, I DON'T WANT TO DIMINISH THAT, BUT WE HAVE A $9 BILLION SURPLUS, THERE'S A HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY TO DO THINGS.

AND, SO, I THINK AT THIS POINT YOU MAY HAVE TO LEAVE THE CARDS ON THE TABLE AND TAKE IT TO THE OTERS.

>> I THINK ABOU IS RIGHT IN THE SENSE THAT EVERYBODY AT THE CAPITOL RIGHT NOW IS LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER EXAMINE LOOKING A-- AND LOOKING AT THE ELECTION.

AND WANT TO GO KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT.

ON THE ONE HAND, IT'S TO EVERYBODY'S INTEREST THAT THERE WILL BE A DEAL.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, NO ONE IS GOING TO LOOK GOOD IF THIS ALL IMLOADZ ON EVERYBODY.

IMPLODES ON EVERYBODY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'VE GOT TO STRIKE, YOU'VE GOT TO STRIKE OUT AND SAY, WELL, THESE ARE OUR ISSUES, WE DIDN'T GET AS FAR AS WE WANTED.

I'M EXPECTING THAT'S GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN POSITION, ON, FOR EXAMPLE, PUBLIC SAFETY.

THERE WILL BE OTHER ISSUES THAT MAYBE EDUCATION, WHO KNOWS.

BUT OTHER ISSUES THAT THE DEMOCRATS WILL HAVE THAT THEY'LL TAKE FROM IT.

BUT THEY HAVE TO DO A DEAL.

>> Cathy: WE DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO ASK THE GOVERNOR THIS, BUT HOW MUCH OF HIS ELECTION FORTUNES ARE LINKED TO THE SUCCESS OF THE PRESIDENT?

>> OH, I THINK GOVERNOR WALZ HAS A BRAND THAT IS UNIQUE AND DISTINCT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT HIS PROFILE, COMING OUT OF GREATER MINNESOTA, SOUTHERN MINNESOTA, CONGRESSMAN, CONNECTED TO AG, HIS PROFILE IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE STEREOTYPICAL DEMOCRAT.

SO I THINK HE'S ABLE TO GO INTO SPACES AND PLACES ALL ACROSS MINNESOTA AND HAVE A MESSAGE THAT IS RESONATING IN A WAY THAT MAYBE THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATS WOULD NOT.

>> I KNOW HE'S HOPING THAT.

BUT HE'S -- >> Eric: -- >> HE'S NOT DOING WELL OUTSTATE.

LIKE RUDY PERPICH SAID, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DESIGNATED PERSON AGAINST ME, I ALWAYS LOOK BAD.

BUT WHEN YOU PUT A HUMAN BEING ACROSS FROM ME, MAYBE THE ELECTION LOOKS DIFFERENT.

THAT'S WHAT HE HAS TO HOPE FOR, THAT REPUBLICANS COME UP A CANDIDATE, BECAUSE THE WINS ARE REALLY COMING OUT OF D.C.

THE NATIONAL ECONOMY, TO SOME EXTENT, IS GOING TO NATIONALIZE THE ELECTION IN ANY CASE.

AND LIKE IT OR NOT, UNLESS INFLATION GETS DOWN BELOW 3%, IT'S GOING TO BE GRIM.

IT'S GOING TO BE, IF 0 THOSE OF US THAT WERE AROUND IN 1982, WE REMEMBER THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO REPUBLICANS.

THOSE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO REPUBLICANS IN 1982 WHEN WE HAD THE SAME KIND OF PROBLEMS ARE DESTINED TO HAPPEN TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

YOU CAN ONLY -- THEY CAN ONLY HOPE THAT THINGS WILL IMPROVE A LITTLE.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION, DON'T COMPARE ME TO THE ALTERNATIVE, DON'T COMPARE ME TO THE ALMIGHTY, COMPARE ME TO THE ALTERNATIVE.

REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT SOMEBODY.

THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT BE SCOTT JENSEN.

VERY LIKELY SCOTT JENSEN.

>> VERY LIKELY ABOUT THAT.

>> HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO DEFEND WHY HE THINKS THERE SHOULD BE NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE OR INCEST WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTIONS.

THESE ARE CHOICES PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE IN NOVEMBER.

WALZ CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT, WE GOT US THROUGH COVID.

>> Eric: WILL THERE BE AN ENDORSEMENT FOR GOVERNOR AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION NEXT WEEKEND?

>> I REALLY DON'T THINK SO.

YEAH, IT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT WE'VE OT A LOT OF CANDIDATES, AND IN ANY EVENT, THERE'S GOING TO BE RUN, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE DECIDED IN THE PRIMARY, PERIOD, FOR US.

AND IT'S EXCITING.

WE'VE GOT 20 CANDIDATES SHOWING UP DOWN IN ONE.

>> Eric: WILL DONALD TRUMP ENDORSE IN MINNESOTA?

HE HAD A BIG NIGHT THE OTHER NIGHT IN THE PRIMARIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> THERE WERE A COUPLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE OF THOSE, TOUCHY ISSUES AMONG REPUBLICANS.

WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO SEE HIM HERE OR NOT.

DOING ENDORSEMENTS.

I KNOW THERE WERE SOME CANDIDATES THAT WANT TO BE ENDORSED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE IT'S GOING TO BE.

BUT PERSONALLY, I HOPE HE'S GOT OTHER THINGS GOING ON IN FLORIDA.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HIM ENDORSE ALL THE CANDIDATES.

>> I'M SURE YOU WOULD, YES.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: JUST BEFORE WE GO, THERE WILL BE A DEAL, EVERYTHING WILL BE WRAPPED UP AT THE LEGISLATURE IN TIME?

NO SPECIAL SESSION, EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE?

>> I THINK IT ACTUALLY LOOKS THAT WAY.

I THINK EVERYBODY REALLY WANTS TO DO THE DEAL.

IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, IT'S GOING TO BE UNEXPECTED.

>> Eric: THEY'VE GOT TO GO OUT AND CAMPAIGN IN NEW DISTRICTS.

>> ALSO TRUE.

>> Eric: THANK, FELLAS.

THANK YOU.

FAN FACT.

>> THANK YOU.

FANTASTIC.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> CATHY: LET'S JUMP RIGHT INTO OUR MINNESOTA HISTORY QUESTION.

LAST TIME WE ASKED YOU ABOUT A TRULY NOTABLE AMERICAN JOURNALIST -- NOT SEEN HERE.

THE PERSON WE SOUGHT WAS THE WINNER OF MANY AWARDS, INCLUDING EMMYS AND A PEABODY.

AT ONE POINT THIS PERSON WAS ONE OF THE MOST RECOGNIZABLE FACES ON AMERICAN TELEVISION AND APPEARED ON THE COVER OF "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE AND "TV GUIDE."

WE TOLD YOU THIS PERSON WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL IN THE TWIN CITIES AND THEN GRADUATED FROM THE U OF M WITH A DEGREE IN JOURNALISM IN 1989.

THOSE WERE THE FACTS.

AND HERE WAS OUR QUESTION.

WHO IS THIS NOTABLE 1989 U OF M GRADUATE?

WE WARNED YOU THAT THIS QUESTION WAS TRICKY, AND THAT MEANT THE "ALMANAC" PRODUCERS HAD MANY OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM WHEN IT CAME TO WRONG ANSWERS.

>> Cathy: YES, DEB, FROM WOODBURY, MICHELLE NORRIS IS A GREAT GUESS.

THE FORMER WCCO TV REPORTER AND NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO HOST HAS WON MANY JOURNALISM HONORS, INCLUDING A PEABODY AWARD AND EMMYS.

AND SHE'S A U OF M GRADUATE.

BUT NOT IN 1989. WHO WAS THE PERSON WE SOUGHT?

WE HAD A HANDFUL OF RIGHT ANSWERS.

DAVID FROM DARWIN CALLED IN FIRST.

>> CATHY: YES, HARRY REASONER, ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF "SIXTY MINUTES" AND LATER A CO-ANCHOR OF THE "ABC NIGHTLY NEWS."

REASONER ATTENDED THE U OF M IN THE 1940S, HAD TV AND NEWSPAPER JOBS HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES BEFORE MOVING OUT EAST.

BUT HE DIDN'T FINISH HIS DEGREE UNTIL 1989.

>>> A QUICK WORD BEFORE WE GO.

WE KNOW THAT MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING LEGISLATIVE COVERAGE ON THE STATEWIDE MINNESOTA CHANNEL.

AND THERE'’S A SURVEY TO FILL OUT THAT PROVIDES FEEDBACK ON THAT COVERAGE.

THE ADDRESS IS A BIT TRICKY, SO WE'RE PUTTING IT ON THE SCREEN FOR A LONG TIME.

GO TO WWW.SURVEYMONKEY.COM/R/ LEGISURVEY.

THERE YOU GO.

WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT UP ON THE SCREEN.

DO FILL OUT THAT SURVEY WHEN YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY.

>>> WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME TO LEAVE YOU WITH SOME SHOW-ENDING MUSIC FROM THE TPT ARCHIVES.

IT'S BEEN A BIG WEEK FOR JIMMY JAM HARRIS AND TERRY LEWIS.

THE TWO FOUND OUT THAT THEY WILL ENTER THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME LATER THIS YEAR.

LET'S USE THE OCCASION TO PLAY A GEM IN THE TPT ARCHIVES.

I LOVE THIS.

40 YEARS AGO TERRY LEWIS AND JIMMY JAM PLAYED IN A BAND CALLED THE TIME.

IT WAS A GREAT BAND.

THE FRONT MAN WAS MORRIS DAY.

HERE'S THE GROUP PLAYING ON THE KTCA NIGHTTIMES VARIETY PROGRAM BACK IN 1982.

WE HOPE YOU ENJOY WATCHING THE CLIP.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

♪ ATTENTION, EVERYBODY ♪ ♪ I'M GONNA SHOW YOU A BRAND-NEW DANCE ♪ ♪ IT'S CALLED THE WALK, THE WALK, JUST LET UNUSUAL BODY TALK, TELL YOUR FEET ♪ ♪ YOU DON'T NEED NO PARTNER ♪ ♪ YOU CAN WALK ALL NIGHT ♪ ♪ FEEL THE GROOVE ♪ ♪ JUST LET YOUR BODY MOVE ♪ ♪ TO THE BEAT OF YOUR OWN 7 ♪ YEAH ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK YOUR BODY ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK YOUR BODY ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK ♪ ♪ ATTENTION, EVERYBODY ♪ ♪ I SAID IT AIN'T HARD O DO ♪ ♪ YOU JUST WALK, WALK, LET YOUR BODY TALK ♪ ♪ ATTENTION, EVERYBODY ♪ ♪ I SAID, I JUST SHINED MY SHOES, YES, I DID ♪ ♪ YOU CAN LET YOUR BODY TALK ♪ ♪ JUST WATCH WHERE YOU WALK ♪ ♪ OR YOU'RE GONNA LOSE ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK YOUR BODY ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION Captioned by: Paradigm Reporting & Captioning www.paradigmreporting.com ♪ WALKING'S NO THE COOL, BABY, PUT ON A CAMISOLE ♪ ♪ HEY ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK YOUR BODY ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK YOUR BODY ♪ ♪ EVERYBODY WALK ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.