♪ ♪ >> Mary: WITH US NOW, FORMER LAWMAKERS.

WE HAVE REPUBLICAN PAT GAROFALO AND DEMOCRAT KARLA BIGHAM AND ARLA SERVED IN BOTH PLACES.

GAROFALO JUST THE HOUSE.

YOU KNOW, SHE ELEVATED OVER TO THE SENATE?

>> ELEVATED.

THAT'S A DEBATABLE PROPOSITION.

>> Mary: WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEBATE THAT.

BUT LET'S DEBATE WHAT HAPPENED HERE WITH DRINKING AND LEGISLATING AND DRIVING.

BOTH PARTIES HAVE DONE IT.

BOTH CHAMBERS HAVE DONE IT.

THIS ONE IS BEING TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE REASONS.

I SERVED 20 YEARS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

IT WOULD BE VERY COMMON FOR MEMBERS BACK IN THE OLDEN DAYS TO DRINK ALCOHOL BACK IN THEIR OFFICES TO HOST PARTIES.

MAYBE EVEN TO HAVE A DRINK OR TWO ON THE FLOOR DURING DEBATES.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED FAIRLY RECENTLY -- >> Mary: BEFORE, DURING, AFTER SESSION?

>> AND I'M NOT DEFENDING -- YES, SO -- [Overlapping conversations] CORRECT.

AND SO NOW THERE ARE DIFFERENT STANDARDS.

>> Mary: YES.

>> AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE BENEFIT OF KNOWING LEGISLATORS INVOLVED AND YOU SEE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE PEOPLE MAKE A MISTAKE OR PERHAPS THERE'S A MORE SUBSTANTIVE PERSONAL PROBLEM.

I WOULD JUST CAUTION MY FRIENDS IN THE FL TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON THEIR SIDE.

AND YOU WANT TO TREAT REPUBLICANS RIGHT NOW THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO TREAT YOUR FUTURE MEMBERS.

IT DOESN'T DEFEND OR EXCUSE ANYTHING THEY DID WRONG ON EITHER SIDE OF THE AISLE.

LIKE YOU SAID, WE'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM ON BOTH SIDES.

BUT YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO PLAY THE LONG GAME ON THIS BECAUSE SOMEBODY WILL MAKE A MISTAKE IN THE FUTURE AND YOU'RE GOING TO WANT THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO BE TREATED ON A PERSONAL LEVEL WITH RESPECT AND CORRECT THE PROBLEM.

>> Mary: ONE OF THESE SOMEBODIES IS ONING FOR STATEWIDE OFFICE.

I WOULD SAY THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THIS IS GETTING MORE ATTENTION OR DIFFERENT ATTENTION.

>> I THINK PART OF IT IS SKIPPING OUT ON COMMITTEE AND GOING TO A BAR.

AND I AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, THIS HAS HAPPENED TO.

IT IS NEVER OKAY TO DRINK AND DRIVE EVER.

AND IT IS BAD JUDGMENT.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

IN A COURT OF LAW.

I THINK AN ISSUE THAT AS THIS HAS PLAYED OUT THAT KEEPS GOING THROUGH MY HEAD IS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, THERE'S BEEN SOME SERIOUS ETHICAL QUESTIONS, BUT HE ETHICS PROCESS DOESN'T SEEM TO KIND OF MATCH.

AND SO I THINK IT'D BE GOOD FOR OME MEMBERS OUTSIDE OF SESSION TO COME UP MAYBE WITH A REVIEW, MAYBE GET SOME, YOU KNOW, LAWYERS INVOLVED TO LOOK AT ETHICS AND SOME, YOU KNOW, PROFESSORS.

AND SEE IF THERE ISN'T A CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO, YOU KNOW, HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THINGS.

>> Mary: ONE CHANGE THAT ACTUALLY IS BEING DISCUSSED IS THE WEAPONS POLICY.

BECAUSE SUDDENLY, YOU KNOW, THIS SESSION IS VERY DIFFERENT WITH WEAPONS SCREENING AT THE FRONT DOOR, WEAPONS SCREENINGS AT THE GALLERY.

THE OTHER ISSUE AND ANOTHER REASON THIS IS BLOWING UP AND GETTING SO MUCH ATTENTION IS ONE OF THE MEMBERS WHO DID DISCLOSE HE HAD A PERMIT TO CARRY.

AND HE WAS DRINKING.

AND MAYBE CARRYING HERE.

WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE OR NOT.

BUT MANY, MANY MEMBERS, MORE THAN EVER, THAN I EVER REMEMBER SEEING OR KNOWING ABOUT ARE NOW CARRYING NOW.

SO THAT UADDS A WHOLE ANOTHER LAYER.

>> AGAIN, SMASKT OF FACTS OF THE CASE, THE REPRESENTATIVE IN QUESTION, THE POLICE DID NOT ADMINISTER AN INTOX LIESER.

SO I'M NOT JUSTIFYING IT.

BUT YOU CAN HAVE A BEER AND STILL BE CONCEALED CARRY.

YOU HAVE TO BE BELOW .04.

NOT THAT THAT MATTERS.

IT'S A DISTINCTION SOCIAL MEDIA TAKES NARRATIVE AND THEY RUN ITH THAT SOMEHOW THIS PERSON WAS BLASTED OR WHATEVER.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

PUTTING THAT ASIDE.

ANOTHER CHANGE THAT'S TAKEN PLACE IN THE LEGISLATURE IS THIS.

THEY NOW ALLOW REMOTE VOTING HERE, OKAY?

SOMETHING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TEMPORARY DURING COVID.

NOW IT'S PERMANENT.

SO THIS BLURRING OF THE LINES OF WHEN YOU'RE WORKING AS A LEGISLATOR AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT, THAT GETS MESSY.

WE'VE HAD LEGISLATORS CALLING IN AND VOTING FROM BARS.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

AND THIS IS THE SORT OF CONVERSATION THAT, AGAIN, AS AN INSTITUTIONALIST, AS SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO DEFEND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, I WOULD JUST ASK LEGISLATORS, AS YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT A SHORT TERM POLITICAL GAIN, THINK ABOUT THE LONG TERM OF THIS.

THINK ABOUT THINGS THAT UNTIL THE PAST PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER ON THAT COULD COME OUT IN AN ETHICS PROCESS.

>> Mary: CAN WE COME BACK TO THE WEAPONS ISSUE BECAUSE THAT IS BEING DISCUSSED ON BOTH SIDES OF HE AISLE ABOUT RESPONSIBLE PERMIT HOLDERS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THINK THAT DISCUSSION DOES NEED TO CONTINUE AND HAPPEN.

BUT I DO THINK THAT AN OVERALL ETHICS DISCUSSION AND REVISION AND REVIEW IS PROBABLY -- WHICH THAT WOULD MAYBE INCLUDE.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS SECURITY HERE WITH LAW, YOU KNOW, OUR TROOPERS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT FOLKS ARE HERE.

AND I THINK THEY ALSO HAVE THE DECISION AND DISCUSSION OF, ARE THEY GOING TO CONTINUE THE METAL DETECTORS AND SCREENING?

I MEAN, WHAT IS THE LONG TERM PLAN FOR SECURITY AND, YOU KNOW, FOR HOW THEY'RE -- >> Mary: AND THREATS ARE WAY UP.

[Overlapping conversations] >> AND LET'S -- OKAY, THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS THAT MELISSA HORTMAN'S HURD, OKAY, HAS GOT NORTHBOUND IT'S RUNNING IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND.

NO DOUBT THE LEGISLATORS HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY, TO BE LICENSED, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO ACT IN A RESPONSIBLE FACTION.

AND SO I DON'T EXPECT THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY CHANGES TO THAT POLICY BUT I DO THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE AWARENESS OF RESPONSIBILITY INVOLVES WITH THOSE RIGHTS.

>> Mary: YOU MENTIONED HORTMAN AND I THINK SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ERIN MURPHY CALLED IT OUT BEFORE SESSION.

EVERYBODY'S STILL GLEEIVING AND HURTING AND IT IS AFFECTING SESSION.

IT IS AFFECTING BEHAVIOR, ARE YOU SEEING THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, I MEAN, I WAS TESTIFYING IN THE HOUSE COMMITTEE TODAY, AND IT WAS TESTY.

AND I JUST THINK THAT WITH EVERYTHING GOING ON NATIONALLY AS WELL, AND YOU SAW THAT WHEN MY GOOD FRIEND SENATOR DIBBLE WHOSE HAIR LOOKED AMAZING TODAY ON THE SENATE FLOOR, BY THE WAY -- >> Mary: SENATOR JOHNSTON'S HAIR LOOKED PRETTY GOOD TOO.

[ Laughter ] >> JUST ALL THAT PRESSURE AND EVERYTHING IS JUST HEAVY RIGHT NOW.

AND SO IT'S JUST DIFFICULT.

AND AS, YOU KNOW, PAT SAID, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH AND HOW THEY'RE PROCESSING THAT.

I MEAN, SHE WAS A VERY CLOSE FRIEND OF BOTH OF US.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T -- IT FEELS WEIRD BEING HERE AND WE'RE NOT HERE ANYMORE.

AND WE'RE NOT MEMBERS AND IT FEELS WEIRD BEING HERE KNOWING SHE'S NOT.

>> Mary: THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT OKAY.

>> LEGISLATORS ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU IN TV LAND, RIGHT?

AND THIS IS STRESSING PEOPLE OUT IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND.

NOT JUST THE LOSS OF A FRIEND AND SUCH AN UNFAIR AND TRANLIC FASHION.

BUT ALSO IT PERSONALIZES A VULNERABILITY THAT EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL HAS.

AND IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT LEGISLATORS DON'T THINK IT'S AFFECTING THEM.

IT IS ALSO VERY LEAR IT IS AFFECTING THEM.

AND SO -- AND THIS IS -- THERE'S PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSER TO MELISSA THAN OTHERS, BUT EVERYBODY IN THIS CHAMBER AND IN THE SENATE NOW VIEWS THEIR PERSONAL SECURITY DIFFERENTLY AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE UNDER STRESS IN THIS HIGHLY POLARIZED POLITICAL -- THE MOST DIVIDED LEGISLATURE, EVENLY DIVIDED LEGISLATURE IN THE NATION, EVERYONE CLAWS AND STRESSED AND OUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE REALLY NICE HAIR.

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK ALL MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF RECOGNIZING.

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT GETS INTO THE END OF SESSION WHERE EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MIND.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT -- [Overlapping conversations] >> Mary: THE TIED HOUSE.

THEY'RE STRUGGLING TO LEGISLATE.

>> YEAH, I THINK -- I HONESTLY FEEL THEY'LL GET A BONDING BILL DONE.

I DON'T THINK THEY'LL GET A LOT MORE DONE.

I'M -- I BELIEVE THERE'S A LOT OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR MODERNIZATION AND TECHNOLOGY FOR COUNTIES AND HOW WE PROCESS SOCIAL SERVICES WHICH WOULD BE RATEFUL FOR.

AND ALSO I THINK FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE -- >> Mary: INSPECTOR GENERAL, GAROFALO?

>> HERE'S THE THING.

IF THERE ISN'T AN INSPECTOR GENERAL BILL PASSED, SOMEONE NEEDS TO SERIOUSLY ASK WHY THAT'S BEING -- REMEMBER, THAT PASSED HE SENATE 60-7.

IF THAT GETS BLOCKED -- >> Mary: AND WE WILL BE TALKING TO AN AUTHOR OF THAT BILL IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.

THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL, I THINK THE BONDING BILL, AND THEN HCMC HAS -- >> YES.

[Overlapping conversations] >> M