>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: IN THE NEXT HOUR WE'LL BRING YOU THE LATEST ON THE FIRE SITUATION UP NORTH, WE'LL LEARN ABOUT MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS WHO DESTROYED EVIDENCE DURING THE RIOTS LAST SUMMER, AND WE'LL EXPLORE THE THREAT THE DELTA VARIANT POSES FOR UNVACCINATED MINNESOTANS.

THEN MARY LAHAMMER REPORTS FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

>> Mary: WE'LL PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT FOR THE LATEST CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING REPRESENTATIVE JOHN THOMPSON.

>> YOU PROFILED ME BECAUSE YOU LOOKED ME DEAD IN THE FACE AND I GOT A TICKET FOR DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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"ONE GREATER MINNESOTA" REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN THE UPPER MIDWEST.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT COMES FROM THE MINNEAPOLIS FOUNDATION, INSPIRING AND ENGAGING IN ACTION TO REALIZE STRONG, VIBRANT COMMUNITIES, AND FROM THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION.

>> CATHY: WE'LL TALK ABOUT FOREST FIRES UP NORTH AND THAT REPRSENTATIVE JOHN THOMPSON STORY IN A FEW MINUTES, BUT FIRST UP THIS HOUR, A PIECE OF ENTERPRISE JOURNALISM ABOUT THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> ERIC: THIS WEEK THE "STAR TRIBUNE" REPORTED THAT DURING THE RIOTS LAST SUMMER, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS IN THE CITY'S SECOND PRECINCT DESTROYED CRIMINAL CASE FILES AND OTHER INFORMATION SUCH AS SEARCH WARRANTS.

OFFICERS DID SO OUT OF CONCERN THAT PROTESTORS MAY HAVE STORMED THE PRECINCT AND OBTAINED THE MATERIAL.

THE STORY CAME TO LIGHT BECAUSE EVIDENCE NEEDED FOR SOME CRIMINAL TRIALS IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE.

ANDY MANNIX IS THE REPORTER FOR THE "STRIB" WHO WROTE THE STORY.

ANDY, IN THE CASE YOU HIGHLIGHTED THE PUBLIC DEFENDER FOR A REPUTED DRUG DEALER IS SAYING IT'S ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZE YOUR BECAUSE THE RECORDS AND THE WARRANTS AND ALL THAT STUFF NO LONGER EXIST, IS THAT FAIR?

SEIZURE.

>> YEAH, THEY ARE BASICALLY SAYING, YOU HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES, A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO CHALLENGE THE EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU, INCLUDING THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS USED TO GET A SEARCH WARRANT THAT THEY THEN USED TO COLLECT OTHER EVIDENCE.

SO THEY'RE SAYING BECAUSE THIS EVIDENCE, TO GET THE SEARCH WARRANT, DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE, THAT THIS IS A VIOLATION OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND THEY WANT THE CASE THROWN OUT.

>> Cathy: THERE'S A LOT TO DIG INTO HERE, OBVIOUSLY.

BUT IN THIS DAY AND AGE, AREN'T THERE DIGITAL COPIES OF THE EVIDENCE?

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

THIS IS ONE WITH PROBABLY A LOT MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS AT THIS POINT.

DEALING WITH THE GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW?

BUT, YEAH, YOU WOULD THINK THAT THESE WOULD EXIST IN A DIGITAL FORM, THIS WOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.

ACCORDING TO THE COURT RECORDS, ACCORDING TO WHAT THE POLICE OFFICERS RE SAYING, A BUNCH OF THOSE WARRANTS THAT WERE OBTAINED BY THE POLICE BEFORE THEY SEARCHED HIS HOUSE WERE NOT PUT INTO THE COURT SYSTEM, SO THERE IS NO OTHER COPY OF THEM.

>> Cathy: HO GAVE THE ORDER TO HAVE THIS EVIDENCE DESTROYED?

>> ANOTHER GREAT QUESTION.

WE DON'T KNOW.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT CAME FROM COMMAND STAFF.

ALL WE HAVE, REALLY, TO GO ON IS A -- WHAT THIS POLICE OFFICER WROTE IN A REPORT THAT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE PUBLIC.

THE ONLY REASON IT IS IS BECAUSE IT'S BEEN PUBLISHED BY THE COURT AS AN EXHIBIT IN THE COURT CASE THAT ERIC MENTIONED.

BUT HE SAYS AN INVESTIGATOR WHO NO LONGER WORKS FOR THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT IS THE ONE WHO DECIDED THAT THEY SHOULD DESTROY THESE FILES.

WE DON'T KNOW WHO THAT IS.

>> Eric: THE THIRD PRECINCT HEADQUARTERS DID GO UP IN FLAMES FOR THE RIOT.

MAYBE FOR LISTENERS WHO DON'T KNOW, HOW FAR IS THE THIRD PRECINCT FROM THE SECOND PRECINCT?

>> PRETTY FAR, YEAH.

OVER FIVE MILES AND ACROSS THE MIGHTY MISSISSIPPI.

SO THIRD PRECINCT IS IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS.

SECOND PRECINCT IS IN NORTHEAST MINNEAPOLIS.

ON CENTRAL AVENUE.

THE FIFTH PRECINCT, MUCH CLOSER, THAT ONE THERE WERE A LOT OF PROTESTERS OUT THERE DURING THE PROTEST AND RIOTS.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WERE THERE PEOPLE DESTROYING FILES IN OTHER PRECINCTS?

WE DON'T KNOW.

AGAIN, WE ONLY KNOW THIS BECAUSE IT WAS PUBLISHED IN THIS COURT CASE.

>> Eric: SURE.

>> BUT, YEAH, THE SECOND PRECINCT IS NOT ONE THAT EVER REALLY HAD A LOT OF PROTESTERS OR THAT, LIKE, IMMINENT THREAT THAT EVEN THE FIFTH PRECINCT AT ONE POINT I THINK YOU COULD ARGUE HAD.

CERTAINLY NOTHING LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SECOND PRECINCT.

OTHER SIDE OF TOWN.

>> Eric: DID SOMEBODY NOT WANT THIS STUFF TO GET OUT?

I DON'T KNOW, DOES IT MASK SOME CONDUCT THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE PUBLICIZED?

>> THE SPECULATORS ARE SPECULATING WILDLY, AND THAT IS AMONG THE -- I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HISTORICALLY, IN GOVERNMENT DESTROYING DOCUMENTS HAS NOT BEEN GOOD.

WITHOUT ANY ANSWERS FROM THE MAYOR OR POLICE DEPARTMENT ON WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND THIS HAS BEEN OVER A YEAR, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY KNEW ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE BROUGHT IT TO THEIR ATTENTION, BUT THEY'VE HAD OVER A YEAR TO, IN THEORY, FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

GETTING ARE THE -- GETTING REALLY NOT -- GETTING REALLY NOT ANY ANSWERS FROM THEM.

WE DON'T KNOW.

AND PEOPLE ARE LEFT TO SPECULATE ABOUT THAT.

>> Cathy: WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS IN THIS?

>> THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT TOLD US THAT THEY'RE INVESTIGATING.

THE MAYOR SAYS THAT HE SUPPORTS THE INVESTIGATION.

AGAIN, A WHOLE LOT OF QUESTIONS, NOT A LOT F ANSWERS EQUATION HERE, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT LEAVES US.

>> Eric: IN THE CASE THAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED, THERE'S A HEARING ON JULY 27th.

WHAT'S UP THERE?

>> YEAH, THERE IS A HEARING ON JULY 27th.

AND THAT IS REALLY MORE A COURT BATTLE, RIGHT?

SO THE HENNEPIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE IS GOING TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT OF WHY THIS CASE SHOULDN'T BE THROWN OUT.

THE DEFENSE IS GOING TO GET CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT IN FRONT OF A JUDGE, AND THE JUDGE WILL ULTIMATELY DECIDE IF THAT CASE GOES FORWARD OR NOT.

>> Eric: AND YOU'LL BE FOLLOWING IT ON STARTRIBUNE.COM.

>> SURE L. >> Eric: THANKS, ANDY.

>> YOU BET.

>> SURE WILL.

♪♪ >> CATHY: BEFORE WE TALK ONCE AGAIN ABOUT COVID, LET'S START WITH SOME CONTEXT.

AT THE PEAK OF THE POLIO EPIDEMIC IN THE 1950S, 3,000 AMERICANS DIED EACH YEAR.

A TYPICAL FLU SEASON KILLS 30,000 TO 60,000 AMERICANS.

IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS MORE THAN 600,000 AMERICANS HAVE DIED OF COVID.

AND THE NUMBERS ARE CREEPING UP AGAIN DUE TO THE DELTA VARIANT.

IN THE PAST WEEK COVID CASES IN THE U.S. HAVE NEARLY DOUBLED COMPARED TO THE WEEK BEFORE.

JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT WHERE MINNESOTA FITS INTO THE NATIONAL PANDEMIC PICTURE, MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

HE HEADS THE U OF M'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: ABSOLUTELY.

THE HEAD OF THE CDC SAYS THIS IS A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK IT IS.

AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES.

UNFORTUNATELY FOR MUCH OF THE WORLD, THERE IS NO VACCINE AVAILABLE.

SO IT'S EVEN WORSE THERE.

BUT WE STILL HAVE OVER 00 MILLION U.S.

RESIDENTS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED, EVEN WITH THE SINGLE DOSE, OR, FOR THAT MATTER, EVEN HAD COVID BEFORE WHERE THEY MAY HAVE SOME RESIDUAL PROTECTION.

AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE'RE GOING TO SEE MAJOR CASE INCREASES.

IF WE LOOK AT JUST AN EXAMPLE TODAY, THE UNITED KINGDOM REPORTED OUT 53,000 NEW CASES.

THEIR VACCINATION NUMBERS ARE SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN OURS.

THEY ACTUALLY HAVE 90% OF ALL THEIR ADULTS WITH AT LEAST A SINGLE DOSE F VACCINE.

WE'RE DOWN IN THE 60%.

AND AS FAR AS TWO DOSES, THEY HAVE 2/3 OF THEIR POPULATION WITH TWO DOSES, AND WE HAVE JUST A LITTLE OVER HALF.

AND, SO, IF YOU EXTRAPOLATE THEIR NUMBER OF 52,000 TODAY, THAT WOULD BE ALMOST 215,000 NEW CASES IN THE UNITED STATES PER DAY.

THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, IS SOMETHING WE'RE VERY CONCERNED COULD HAPPEN HERE AS WE'RE SEEING IT HAPPEN AROUND THE WORLD.

>> Eric: THE DELTA VARIANT IS SPREADING, AS YOU SAY.

DO OUR HOTS THAT WE TOOK FOR THE FIRST ROUND STILL WORK?

>> WELL, THE DELTA VARIANT IS WICKED.

IT SIMPLY IS WICKED.

IT IS MUCH MORE INFECTIOUS THAN ANY OF THE PREVIOUS VARIANTS WE'VE DEALT WITH.

AS WE'VE TALKED BOUT ON PREVIOUS EPISODES OF THIS SHOW, THESE VARIANTS ARE A REAL CHALLENGE.

THIS ONE MAY ACTUALLY BE, BY FAR, RIGHT UP THERE WITH SOME OF THE SEVERE RESPIRATORY VIRUSES, MEANING ONES THAT WE GET NORMALLY TRANSMITTED VIA JUST BREATHING.

AND, SO, FROM THAT STANDPOINT, IT IS HIGHLY INFECTIOUS.

THE BIG QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING, WHICH IS A CRITICAL ONE, DO OUR VACCINES WORK?

AND AT LEAST WITH THE MN & R VACCINES, THE PFIZER AND THE MODERNA ACCINES, TWO DOSES ARE STILL VERY EFFECTIVE.

ONE DOSE HAS HAD REDUCED PROTECTION, MEANING THAT YOU STILL MAY VERY WELL GET INFECTED, YOU MAY EVEN HAVE SOME SYMPTOMS, BUT IT WILL STILL REDUCE THE RISK OF SERIOUS ILLNESS AND HOSPITALIZATIONS.

WE'RE STILL UNCLEAR YET ON JUST WHAT IT MEANS WITH THE J & J SINGLE-DOSE VACCINE.

THE STUDIES ARE UNDERGOING THAT WAY.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO BE SEEING MUCH MORE INFORMATION COME OUT ABOUT THE VACCINES, HOW THEY WILL WORK OVER TIME AND PARTICULARLY WITH THIS VARIANT.

>> Cathy: SO L.A.

WENT BACK TO A MASK MANDATE FOR EVERYBODY, INCLUDING THOSE WHO ARE VACCINATED.

WHY DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR THE VACCINATED TO WEAR MASKS?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFICULT ISSUE.

AS YOU ALREADY HEARD, THE CDC HAS NOT RECOMMENDED MASKING FOR THOSE WHO ARE VACCINATED.

L.A. COUNTY HAS RECOMMENDED FOR EVERYONE.

WE ALL HAVE TO AGREE, THE UNITED STATES HAS BASICALLY FINISHED WITH THE PANDEMIC.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE VIRUS HASN'T FINISHED WITH US, BUT WE HAVE FINISHED WITH THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE VERY FEW LOCATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY ACTUALLY AGREEING TO TAKE STEPS AGAIN TO LIMIT TRANSMISSION.

I MEAN, I EVEN HAVE TO SAY, IRONICALLY, ENGLAND RIGHT NOW IS UNDER A MAJOR CHALLENGE WITH THIS VIRUS, ACTUALLY HAS FREEDOM DAY ON MONDAY, WHICH IS THE DAY IN WHICH THEY'RE GOING O END ALL OF THEIR EFFORTS TO REDUCE TRANSMISSION BY DISTANCING, CLOSINGS AND SO FORTH.

AND, SO, I THINK WE'RE IN A CHALLENGED TIME WITH REGARD TO WHAT CAN BE DONE VERSUS WHAT WILL BE DONE.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT EVEN WITH MASKS, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A REAL DIVISION IN GEOGRAPHIC LOCATIONS BY WHAT THEY DO OR DON'T DO.

YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT, WE WILL SEE A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS.

YOU'RE ALREADY SEEING IT, AS YOU KNOW, IN MISSOURI, ARKANSAS, NOW, MISSISSIPPI TODAY A NUMBER OF HOSPITALS IN FLORIDA ARE NOW DEFERRING ALL ELECTIVE SURGERIES BECAUSE OF THE VERY RAPIDLY GROWING NUMBER OF PATIENTS OF COVID.

AND AS WE SEE THESE VARIANTS SPREAD THROUGHOUT ALL 50 STATES, RIGHT NOW AS YOU APPOINTED OUT, ALL 50 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ARE SEEING INCREASES.

IN FACT, IN 23 STATES, THE INCREASES HAVE BEEN OVER 100%, JUST IN THE LAST SEVEN TO 14 DAYS.

SO I THINK THAT THAT WILL THEN -- WE'LL SEE IF PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTIONS TO LIMIT TRANSMISSION.

>> Cathy: RIGHT NOW THESE ARE UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS, BY AND LARGE, WHO ARE GETTING SICK, RIGHT?

ALTHOUGH WE ARE HEARING ABOUT SOME FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE ALSO GETTING SICK.

>> THERE ARE BREAKTHROUGH CASES.

REMEMBER THIS VACCINE IS 90 TO 95% EFFECTIVE.

THAT MEANS IF YOU VACCINATE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND HAVE A WIDESPREAD VIRUS IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE INFECTED, WHO WILL BE BREAKTHROUGH CASES.

WE HAVE 3,000 PLUS SUCH CASES HERE IN MINNESOTA.

BUT EVEN THEN, MOST OF THOSE CASES ARE ACTUALLY QUITE MILD, WHERE WE DO TEND TO SEE MORE SERIOUS ILLNESS ARE AMONG THE ELDERLY, WHERE JUST LIKE WITH FLU VACCINES, WE HAVE BREAKTHROUGHS AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IN SOME CASES THEY'RE ACTUALLY SEVERE.

SOME OF THE IMMUNE COMPROMISED, IMMUNE-DEFICIENT INDIVIDUALS, WHICH WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT AND PROTECTING THEM, THERE'S 12 MILLION OF THEM IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY, THEY, TOO, MAY BE AT RISK WITH BREAKTHROUGH AND SERIOUS ILLNESS.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A REAL CHALLENGE.

THIS IS WHY WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP HITTING HOME OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THE NEED FOR VACCINE.

RIGHT HERE IN MINNESOTA, WE HAVE SOME BIG HOLES.

YOU KNOW, CLEARWATER COUNTY, ONLY 43% OF THE POPULATION AGE 16 AND OVER HAVE HAD A SINGLE DOSE.

TODD COUNTY, 45%.

PINE COUNTY, 46%.

MORRISON COUNTY, 47%.

WE CAN SEE SIZABLE OUTBREAKS IN THOSE LOCATIONS IN THE DAYS AHEAD.

AND ALL I CAN SAY, THIS VIRUS WILL FIND YOU.

THIS IS A VERY INFECTIOUS VIRUS.

YOU CAN'T RUN THE CLOCK OUT ON THIS ONE.

EITHER YOU GET VACCINATED, GET PROTECTED OR YOU'RE LIKELY GOING TO GET INFECTED OVER TIME.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU EXPECT OUT OF THE CDC MEETING NEXT WEEK ON WHETHER A BOOSTER SHOT IS IT GOING TO BE NEEDED?

>> WELL, THEY'RE GOING TO CONCENTRATE HAT BOOSTER SHOT DISCUSSION PRETTY MUCH ON THE OLDER-AGE POPULATION, THOSE WHO HAVE MORE LIKELY TO BE IMMUNE DEFICIENT.

THIS IS, IN PART, WHAT THEY DID IN SRAEL, WHERE THEY'VE NOW ADDED A BOOSTER SHOT TO THAT GROUP AND ONLY THAT GROUP.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE OVER TIME.

I MEAN, WE'RE LEARNING.

THESE ARE EFFECTIVE VACCINES.

BUT JUST LIKE FLU VACCINE, WHICH MAY HAVE TO BE GIVEN EVERY YEAR, WE MAY FIND HAT WITH THESE VACCINES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE BOOSTERS FROM TIME TO TIME.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE EVERY YEAR.

BUT THIS IS A LEARNING CURVE.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS THE MOST INCREDIBLE MIRACLE TOOL THAT PUBLIC HEALTH COULD BRING TO THE TABLE, AND WE HAVE 100 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WON'T TAKE IT.

YOU KNOW, THEY WILL, AGAIN, KNOW A COVID OUTCOME SOMEDAY.

THIS VIRUS WILL FIND THEM.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE MESSAGE WE HAVE TO KEEP GETTING ACROSS.

>> Cathy: SAY, BEFORE YOU GO, WHAT IS YOUR THINKING ABOUT KIDS AND COVID?

YOUNG KIDS WHO HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE VACCINE.

AND, OF COURSE, SCHOOL'S GOING TO START PRETTY SOON.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A REALLY CHALLENGING AREA.

FOR THE FIRST YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC, THE STRAINS OF THE COVID VIRUS THAT WE HAD DIDN'T SEEM TO INFECT KIDS VERY READILY AND WHEN IT DID, THEY DIDN'T GET THAT SERIOUSLY ILL, NOR DID THEY TRANSMIT THE VIRUS.

THAT CHANGED WHEN WE SAW THE FIRST VARIANT CALLED ALPHA, OR B.1.1.7 AS YOU MAY RECALL, CIRCULATING HERE IN MINNESOTA, IN APRIL, WHERE WE HAD SO MANY SPORTING EVENTS AND YOUTH SPORTS INVOLVED.

WELL, NOW THIS VARIANT, DELTA, IS EVEN WORSE.

THIS IS REALLY IMPACTING KIDS.

LOOK AT ALL THE OUTBREAKS.

WE'VE HAD A WHOLE SERIES OF OUTBREAKS JUST IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS IN SUMMER CAMPS WITH KIDS.

SO IT DOES INFECT KIDS.

IT DOES MAKE KIDS VERY SICK.

AND IT IS ALSO ONE THAT IS TRANSMITTED READILY BY KIDS.

FORTUNATELY, FEWER KIDS GET VERY SICK, BUT, NONETHELESS, IT'S A REAL CHALLENGE YET.

SO ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HEARD ABOUT, OPENING SCHOOLS, YOU CAN HAVE KIDS RIGHT TOGETHER, NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, THAT WAS THE OLD VIRUS DATA FROM A YEAR AGO.

THAT IS NOT THE CURRENT SITUATION.

I THINK SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE CHALLENGED.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

JOIN US NEXT MONTH, WILL YOU?

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANKS, DOCTOR.

>> WILL DO.

THANKS A LOT.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> CATHY: STATE REPRESENTATIVE JOHN THOMPSON WAS IN COURT THIS WEEK FOR AN OBSTRUCTION CHARGE FROM AN INCIDENT BEFORE HE WAS A LAWMAKER, BUT THOMPSON COULD BE BACK IN COURT IF HIS RESIDENCY IS LEGALLY CHALLENGED FROM INFORMATION HE PROVIDED IN A 4TH OF JULY TRAFFIC STOP.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER HAS MORE CONTEXT FROM THE CAPITOL.

>> I'M TIRED OF SEEING BLACK BODIES LAYIN' ON THE GROUND, BLACK PEOPLE DYIN' HERE IN THIS STATE.

>> Mary: REPRESENTATIVE JOHN THOMPSON HAS BEEN AN OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF POLICE FOR SOME TIME.

IT'S AN ISSUE THAT PROPELLED HIM TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

>> I WORK FOR ST. PAUL PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR ALMOST, WHAT, 11 YEARS.

UP UNTIL THE UNTIMELY DEATH OF MY FRIEND, PHILANDO CASTILE, WHO WAS MURDERED IN FALCON HEIGHTS, MINNESOTA.

>> Mary: NOW HIS INTERACTION WITH POLICE IS THE SUBJECT OF DISPUTE.

AFTER St. PAUL POLICE CITED THOMPSON FOR DRIVING WITH A REVOKED LICENSE.

THE St. PAUL REP PRESENTED A WISCONSIN DRIVER'S LICENSE AND GAVE A HOME ADDRESS NOT IN HIS DISTRICT.

>> I'M ACTUALLY A CURRENT STATE REPRESENTATIVE IN THIS DISTRICT RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU HAVE A WISCONSIN LICENSE?

>> YEAH, I HAVE A WISCONSIN LICENSE.

I'M STATE REPRESENTATIVE JOHN THOMPSON.

>> SHOCKING.

SHOCKING.

WHEN I FIRST SAW THE HEADLINES, MINNESOTA STATE REPRESENTATIVE WITH A WISCONSIN DRIVER'S LICENSE.

THAT DEFINITELY SENDS RED FLAGS.

>> Mary: WE SPOKE WITH REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON FROM HIS HOME EARLIER THIS SESSION.

>> HERE'S THE OTHER PIECE, MARY.

>> Mary: YEAH.

>> PEOPLE DON'T GET TO TELL ME HOW TO BE SICK AND TIRED OF RACISM.

YOU DON'T GET TO TELL ME.

THERE'S NOTHING SWEET ABOUT RACISM, WHY DO YOU WANT ME TO BE SOFT SPOKEN ABOUT IT?

THERE WAS NOTHING SOFT SPOKEN ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO PHILANDO OR DAUNTE WRIGHT OR GEORGE FLOYD.

>> Mary: LET ME SAY, T WASN'T EASY, YOUR CAMPAIGN WAS CONTROVERSIAL, IT WAS TOUGH.

PEOPLE WERE CALLED ON TO NOT ENDORSE YOU, TO DISAVOW YOU.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT FACING SOME OF THAT CONTROVERSY AND HOW YOUR PROTESTS AND YOUR WORDS WERE SEEN AS INAPPROPRIATE?

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> WE SHOW UP TO HIS HOME.

BY THE WAY, THEY REWARD THIS OFFICER BY MAKING HIM THE PRESIDENT OF THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE FEDERATION.

AND HE'S THE SERGEANT, LIKE, HOW DOES THAT WORK, OUT OF 56 SERVICE COMPLAINTS, AT LEAST 64, BUT I SHOW UP TO HIS HOUSE - >> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THAT?

WHAT ABOUT YOUR WORDS THERE?

DO YOU REGRET ANY OF IT?

>> I DO.

I HONESTLY -- YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I REGRET ABOUT HUGO, MINNESOTA, IS BEING THERE.

>> Mary: REPRESENTATIVE LUCERO FILED AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST THOMPSON FOR HIS COMMENTS DURING THIS FLOOR DEBATE.

>> PLEASE, SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING.

ARE WE SPEAKING ON THE BILL?

>> MR. SPEAKER.

I HAVE THE FLOOR.

I'M BEING INTERRUPTED.

I HAVE THE FLOOR.

>> ARE WE SPEAKING ON THE BILL?

>> AND REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON IS OVERRIDING ME.

PLEASE CALL HIM OUT OF ORDER.

>> POINT OF ORDER.

8 >> REPRESENTATIVE LONG.

>> THANK YOU, MR. SPEAKER.

PERSONALITIES ARE NOT IN ORDER FOR DEBATE.

>> THE REALITY IS, REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ME.

CLEARLY, A STATEMENT OF IGNORANCE.

AND IT WAS HOCKING THAT ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE OUSE FLOOR IS WILLING TO GO TO THAT END TO CALL ME A RACIST.

IT'S DUMBFOUNDING, BECAUSE MYSELF, I'M HISPANIC, MY WIFE IS EAST INDIAN, EAST A MINORITY, ASIAN, SHE'S FROM PAKISTAN, SHE HERSELF HAS A MUSLIM BACKGROUND.

MY WHOLE FAMILY IS A DEMONSTRATION OF ETHNIC AND RELIGIOUS MINORITIES AND WE ARE A BEAUTIFUL RAINBOW OF THAT AND AN INCREDIBLY RICH FAMILY.

SO TO BE TOLD, OR THE ALLEGATION, YOU'RE A RACIST, AMAZINGLY SHOCKING.

>> Mary: BOTH HOUSE CAUCUSES SAY THEY'RE INVESTIGATING THE CONCERNS ABOUT THOMPSON'S BEHAVIOR AND RESIDENCY.

SOMEONE COULD SUE TO TRY TO FORCE HIM FROM FFICE AS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE.

>> THERE'S PRECEDENT FOR THAT, RIGHT?

WE HAVE FORMER REPUBLICAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE BOB BARRETT, WHO, HIMSELF, AFTER REDISTRICTING, HE WAS REMOVED FROM OFFICE BECAUSE HE NO LONGER LIVED IN THE DISTRICT.

>> Mary: HOUSE STAFF TOLD ME REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON IS OUT DUE TO A DEATH IN THE FAMILY THIS WEEK AND COULD NOT DO AN INTERVIEW.

HE ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING, HE WAS, QUOTE, PULLED OVER IN WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A PRETEXTUAL STOP.

THE SAME TYPE OF STOP THAT LED TO THE KILLING OF PHILANDO, AS WELL AS DAUNTE WRIGHT THIS APRIL.

PRETEXTUAL STOPS HAVE BEEN SHOWN NOT ONLY TO DO LITTLE TO STOP SERIOUS CRIMES, BUT THEY ALSO DISPROPORTIONATELY TARGET NONWHITES.

>> YOU'RE SUSPENDED IN MINNESOTA?

THAT'S WHAT THE COMPUTER AYS.

IT'S RONG, YOU HAVE TO DEAL.

>> THANK YOU.

WHY DID YOU PULL ME OVER AGAIN?

>> NO FRONT PLATE AND THE WAY YOU TOOK OFF FROM -- >> I'M TOO OLD TO -- ON THE POLICE, MAN.

YOU PROFILED ME BECAUSE YOU LOOKED ME DEAD IN THE FACE AND I GOT A TICKET FOR DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

YOU PULLED ME OVER BECAUSE YOU SAW A BLACK FACE IN THIS CAR.

>> Mary: AND HE ADDED, QUOTE, I DID NOT HAVE A MINNESOTA DRIVER'S LICENSE, AND THERE WAS A RECORD OF ME HAVING MISSED A CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENT.

WHILE ALL THESE HAVE RELATIVELY SIMPLE EXPLANATIONS, I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY FAULT IN NOT ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES AND ALLOWING THEM TO ECLIPSE THE HARD-FOUGHT WORK DONE IN THE NAME OF POLICE REFORM.

WHAT ABOUT HIS CONTENTION THAN THE INCIDENT ITSELF WAS RACIAL PROFILING?

>> COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED.

IT, UNFORTUNATELY, AS HAS BEEN THE CASE WITH REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON, AND I EVEN HATE SAYING IT THIS WAY, BUT THIS IS THE REALITY, IS THAT WHETHER IT BE HUE WE DO, MINNESOTA -- HUGO, MINNESOTA, WHETHER IT BE THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST ME, THE CHARGE AGAINST ME, COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED, OR WHETHER IT BE THE INTERACTION WITH THE St. PAUL POLICE SERGEANT, THERE APPEARS TO BE A TRAIL OF ALLEGATIONS OF RACISM THAT FOLLOW IN THE WAKE OF REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON.

>> I KNOW THAT A LOT OF YOUNG MEN IN MY COMMUNITY ALSO, MARY, IF THEY COULD SEE IT, THEY COULD BE IT.

WE DON'T NEED A RAPPER, ANOTHER BASKETBALL PLAYER.

WE NEED LEGISLATORS, LAWMAKERS.

YOU KNOW, PRESIDENTS.

>> Mary: HOW IS THE REALITY FOR YOU OF LAW MAKING?

>> THE REALITY IS EVERYTHING THAT I EXPECTED OUT OF LEGISLATION.

WE'RE IN THE BELLY OF WHERE RACISM EXISTS AS A LEGISLATOR.

I'M IN THE BELLY OF WHERE RACISM EXISTS, I'LL SAY THAT AGAIN.

AND FOR PEOPLE WHO HONESTLY, LIKE, THINK THAT I'M SPEWING RHETORIC, YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ALSO.

THIS IS WHERE RACISM EXISTS IN THIS STATE.

STOP RACIALLY PROFILING BLACK MEN IN HEIR CAR, SIR.

STOP DOING THAT.

>> I WASN'T DOING THAT.

>> YES, YOU ARE -- YES, YOU WERE.

YES, YOU WERE.

>> ERIC: STATE LAW SAYS THAT CARS MUST STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS USING CROSSWALKS.

BUT FOR MANY TWIN CITIANS GETTING CARS TO STOP WHILE CROSSING STREETS CAN BE A BIG PROBLEM.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IS DOING A STUDY RIGHT NOW TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO IMPROVE CROSSWALK SAFETY.

NICHOLE MORRIS LEADS THE U OF M'S HUMANFIRST LABORATORY, THE GROUP LEADING THE PROJECT.

WELCOME.

MISS MORRIS, HOW SERIOUS IS THE SAFETY PROBLEM WITH PEDESTRIANS?

>> IT'S QUITE SERIOUS.

OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, OVER 2500 PEDESTRIANS HAVE BEEN STRUCK IN THE TWIN CITIES.

OVER 400 OF THOSE ARE CHILDREN.

AND OF THOSE CHILDREN, NEARLY HALF WERE 10 AND UNDER.

SO THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THE SAFETY IN HICH WE, YOU KNOW, WALK ABOUT.

>> Cathy: St. PAUL HAD AN AWARENESS CAMPAIGN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THAT SEEMED TO WORK OUT PRETTY WELL.

WHAT SEEMS TO WORK WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATING DRIVERS ABOUT THE LAW?

>> SURE.

SO I THINK ONE OF THE BIG BENEFITS OF THE STOP FOR ME PROGRAM THAT WAS UNDERWAY IN St. PAUL IS REALLY JUST MAKING DRIVERS AWARE THAT IT IS STATE LAW TO STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS IN CROSSWALKS.

AND PART OF THAT REALLY STARTS WITH EXPECTING PEDESTRIANS EVERYWHERE.

SO IF YOU'RE EXPECTING A PEDESTRIAN, IT'S EASIER TO SEE THEM IF YOU SEE THEM, YOU CAN STOP FOR THEM.

>> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT PEDESTRIAN RESPONSIBILITY?

AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE YOU'VE SEEN IT, OF COURSE, FOLKS WALKING ACROSS, IN THE CROSSWALK BUT THEY'RE ON THEIR PHONES, THEY'RE TEXTING, THEY'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION, PEOPLE JAYWALKING, THEY WALK ACROSS THE STREET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOCK.

WHAT ABOUT THAT RESPONSIBILITY OF KIND OF KNOWING WHERE YOU ARE IN THE CROSSWALK?

>> SURE, ABSOLUTELY.

SO, PEDESTRIANS REALLY NEED TO BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT'S REALLY PREDICTABLE TO DRIVERS.

SO THAT MEANS CROSSING AT CROSSWALKS, MAKING IT REALLY CLEAR THAT YOU INTEND TO CROSS.

BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING, YOU CAN'T TRUST THAT DRIVERS ARE GOING TO STOP.

YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY'RE REALLY STOPPING BEFORE YOU STEP INTO THE STREET AND BE CHECKING EVERY LANE AS YOU CROSS THE STREET BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE ONE DRIVER THAT STOPS, BUT IN THE NEXT LANE OF TRAVEL, PASSING ON THE RIGHT OR, UNFORTUNATELY, AS WE'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE IN THE TWIN CITIES, PEOPLE RE CROSSING THE CENTER LINE AND GOING IN OPPOSING LANE OF TRAVEL, THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR PEDESTRIANS.

>> Eric: ARE THERE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE IN THE CROSSWALKS THAT ARE WORKING LIKE AROUND THE COUNTRY, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BEST PRACTICES ON THAT ASPECT OF IT?

>> RIGHT.

SO, MY TEAM IS OUT AT 32 CROSSWALKS ACROSS THE TWIN CITIES, MEASURING DRIVER COMPLIANCE TO THE CROSSWALK LAW IN MINNESOTA.

AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE CITIES ARE TESTING ARE THINGS LIKE WHAT ARE CALLED BALLARD BUMP-OUTS, SO PUTTING A LITTLE BIT OF INFRASTRUCTURE, TEMPORARY INFRASTRUCTURE, TO HELP THE PEDESTRIAN GET A LITTLE MORE SAFELY OUT INTO THE STREET SO THEY CAN BE SEEN MORE EADILY OR PUTTING UP ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE AT SIGNALS TO REMIND DRIVERS THAT AS THEY'RE GOING INTO A TURN, THEY MUST YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS EVEN AS THEY'RE GOING INTO A TURN, THEY NEED TO REALLY BE LOOKING FOR THEM AND BE READY TO STOP.

>> Cathy: IS THERE VALUE IN PENALTIES, OBVIOUSLY, LIKE I THINK THERE WERE CAMERAS AT INTERACTIONS, OH, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND THEN THEY NO LONGER USE THOSE, BUT SOME KIND OF A CARROT/STICK SORT OF A THING THAT COULD BE A GOOD THING FOR DRIVERS?

>> SURE.

SO WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES AND OTHER STATES USING AUTOMATED ENFORCEMENT CAN BE A REALLY EFFECTIVE TOOL.

AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE JUST A NUMBER OF WAYS OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TALKING TO THEIR LOVED ONES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME THAT I DRIVE THE SPEED LIMIT AND I LOOK FOR PEDESTRIANS AND I EXPECT YOU TO DO THE SAME THING.

WE CAN ALL BE WORKING TOGETHER, NOT JUST HAVING TO WAIT FOR THOSE PENALTIES, BUT I THINK THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU DO NEED TO SEE THAT THERE REALLY IS A LAW AND WE NEED MULTIPLE WAYS TO REMIND PEOPLE OF THAT.

>> Eric: HAVE THE LOWER SPEED LIMITS IN THE CITY, 25 OR 20 MILES AN HOUR, IS THAT GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT AT ALL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO, IF YOU'RE STRUCK BY A VEHICLE THAT'S TRAVELING 20 MILES AN HOUR, YOUR LIKELIHOOD OF SURVIVING THAT CRASH IS MUCH GREATER.

SO, AS A DRIVER IS TRAVELING FASTER AND FASTER, IF YOU'RE GETTING TO 40, 50 MILES AN HOUR, THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT PEDESTRIAN IS GOING TO DIE, BEING STRUCK AT THAT SPEED, IS VERY LIKELY.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE START TO MAKE THIS CONNECTION, THAT YOUR TRAVEL SPEED IS CONNECTED TO THE LIKELIHOOD THAT SOMEBODY MIGHT LIVE OR DIE IF YOU STRIKE THEM WHILE YOU'RE GOING THAT SPEED.

>> Cathy: SO BEFORE YOU GO, WITH ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, YOU'RE OUT AT SOME -- 32 CROSSWALKS.

>> 32 CROSSWALKS.

>> Cathy: WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED SO FAR?

WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?

>> SO WE'VE SEEN SOME REALLY UNSETTLING BEHAVIOR OF VERY FAST SPEEDS.

SO DRIVERS GOING, YOU KNOW, OVER 50 MILES AN HOUR IN A 25-MILE-AN-HOUR SPEED LIMIT.

AND THAT'S REALLY TOUGH.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, GREAT THAT WE GET TO BE IN THE COMMUNITY AND TALK WITH PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THESE COMMUNITIES AND THAT COME UP TO US AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, WHICH IS SO SORT OF SILLY BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE JUST RESEARCHERS, BUT THESE PEOPLE REALLY LIVE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO GO ACROSS A STREET IN THE TWIN CITIES, AND THEY KNOW THAT WE'RE PUTTING OURSELVES OUT THERE IN HARM'S WAY TO GET THIS DATA AND THEY REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Eric: I'M BOOKING YOU NOW TO COME BACK WHEN THE STUDY'S FINISHED IN 2022, ALL RIGHT?

>> YOU BET.

YOU BET.

>> Eric: THANKS A LOT.

>> YEAH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> A LOT OF US THINK OF DELIVERY OF THE DAILY NEWSPAPER, RIGHT TO OUR DOORSTEP, AS "THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN."

BUT THE WAY THAT PAPER ARRIVES AT OUR DOOR REVEALS AN INTERESTING SLICE OF DELIVERY HISTORY.

YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I LIKE HISTORY!

TODAY, A SUBSCRIBER MAILS IN A CHECK WITH HIS QUARTERLY STATEMENT FOR THE DAILY DELIVERY.

THE WAY IT WAS DONE BACK IN THE '50S WILL BE A FAMILIAR NOSTALGIC TRIP FOR SOME OF YOU.

YOUNGER VIEWERS WILL BE SURPRISED.

IN THOSE DAYS, SUBSCRIBERS PAID FOR THE PAPER BY THE WEEK, AND THE PAPER CARRIER COLLECTED THE FEE EVERY WEEK, USUALLY ON A SATURDAY.

NECESSARY RECORDKEEPING PROVIDED VALUABLE EXPERIENCE FOR THE CARRIER.

A MISSED PAYMENT HAD TO BE NOTED SO THE CARRIER REMEMBERED TO COLLECT DOUBLE THE NEXT WEEK.

DURING SUMMER, A CARRIER WITH A PROPER BASKET COULD RIDE THE ROUTE ON A BICYCLE.

IN WINTER, A SLED MIGHT BE USED.

THE PAPER HAD TO BE DELIVERED, EVERY DAY, HOT OR COLD, RAIN OR SHINE.

THE LIST OF LIFE LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE PAPER ROUTE, OR SAME SAY PAPER ROUT, IS IMPRESSIVE.

MAKING OF CHANGE,MATH, THE- RELIABILITY, AND AMIABILITY.

THERE COULD BE TIPS?

FINE FOUNDATIONS FOR A REWARDING LIFE, ALL THE RESULT OF THE SIMPLE PAPER ROUTE, AND AVAILABLE TO ANY LUCKY TEENAGER, BOY OR GIRL.

AND, OF COURSE, THEY EARNED MONEY TOO.

HARD TO FIND A DEAL LIKE THAT TODAY.

♪♪ >> CATHY: IN THE PAST FEW DECADES MORE AMERICANS HAVE LEARNED ABOUT THE GREAT HARM CAUSED BY RESIDENTIAL BOARDING SCHOOLS FOR INDIGENOUS CHILDREN IN NORTH AMERICA.

IN RECENT MONTHS INDIAN BOARDING SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS WITH REPORTS FROM CANADA ABOUT HUNDREDS OF UNMARKED GRAVES ON THE SITES OF RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS THERE.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS IN OUR REGION, HISTORIAN BRENDA CHILD FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

PROFESSOR CHILD WAS BORN ON THE RED LAKE OJIBWE RESERVATION AND IS THE AUTHOR OF MANY HONORED BOOKS ON NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

WE HAD, OBVIOUSLY, A NUMBER OF BOARDING SCHOOLS IN MINNESOTA.

IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THERE WAS ONE FEDERAL SCHOOL IN PIPESTONE, THE REST WERE KIND OF CHURCH-BASED SCHOOLS.

>> RIGHT.

>> Cathy: WHY WERE THE NATIVE KIDS SENT THERE?

>> WELL, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN INDIANS AND OUR GOVERNMENT BOARDING SCHOOLS, I ALWAYS LIKE TO MENTION THAT THE FIRST OF HESE SCHOOLS WAS CARLISLE IN PENNSYLVANIA.

>> Eric: JIM THORPE.

>> FAMOUS BECAUSE OF JIM THORPE.

THAT SCHOOL OPENED IN 1879.

SO, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT DATE, IT REALLY WAS THE END OF THE INDIAN WARS N THE 19th CENTURY.

AND THE FIRST BOARDING SCHOOL CHILDREN WERE ACTUALLY CHILDREN OF AMERICAN INDIAN PRISONERS OF WAR, LIKE THE APACHES IN THE SOUTHWEST, WHOLE FAMILIES WERE IMPRISONED IN FLORIDA, AND THEIR CHILDREN WERE SENT TO CARLISLE.

>> Eric: THE GOAL WAS TO ASSIMILATE NATIVE KIDS INTO THE BROADER CULTURE, IS THAT WHAT WAS GOING ON?

>> THAT WAS WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND THE RHETORIC OF ASSIMILATION WAS VERY STRONG FOR ABOUT A HALF CENTURY.

I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S BEHIND THE RHETORIC OF ASSIMILATION BECAUSE THE BOARDING SCHOOL POLICIES WENT HAND IN HAND WITH ANOTHER REALLY BIG POLICY OF THAT ERA CALLED THE GENERAL ALLOTMENT ACT.

AND, SO, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE 19th CENTURY, AFTER THE TREATY PERIOD ENDED, AMERICAN INDIAN PEOPLE STILL HAD A LOT OF LAND AND RESOURCES.

AND THE UNITED STATES WAS VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING THEIR HANDS ON THESE RESOURCES.

AND, SO, THE BOARDING SCHOOLS WERE ABOUT EDUCATING INDIANS FOR A DIFFERENT FUTURE THAN THEIR PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS HAD LIVING ON THE LAND.

SO THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE EDUCATED IN THESE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS, LEARN TRADES, WOMEN WERE TO LEARN, YOUNG GIRLS WERE TO LEARN DOMESTICITY, BUT THE IDEA IS THEY WOULDN'T REALLY NEED THEIR HOMELAND ANYMORE, THEY DIDN'T EED RESERVATIONS.

THEY COULD KIND OF ENTER AMERICAN SOCIETY.

SO IT WAS SORT OF, ON ONE HAND, A POSITIVE MESSAGE OF UPLIFT, HUMANITARIANISM, WE WANT TO DO THE BEST THING AND EDUCATE INDIAN KIDS FOR THE FUTURE, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, DURING THIS HALF CENTURY THAT BOARDING SCHOOLS DOMINATED THE HISTORY OF INDIAN EDUCATION, IT WAS A PERIOD OF MASSIVE DISPOSSESSION OF AMERICAN INDIANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT LOSS OF CULTURE WITH THESE KIDS?

>> WELL, THAT WAS THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH BOARDING SCHOOLS IS THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED -- IT WAS AN ENGLISH-ONLY ENVIRONMENT.

SO YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GIVE UP YOUR LANGUAGE.

CHILDREN FROM MANY DIFFERENT TRIBES USUALLY WERE SENT TO SCHOOLS TOGETHER.

AND ENGLISH WAS TO BE THE LANGUAGE IN THOSE ERA, THERE WASN'T MUCH SEPARATION BETWEEN KIND OF RELIGIOUS IDEAS AND EDUCATION, EVEN THOUGH THESE WERE GOVERNMENT-FUNDED FEDERAL OFF-RESERVATION BOARDING SCHOOLS, AND, SO, IT WAS EXPECTED THAT KIDS WOULD, YOU KNOW, GIVE UP THEIR RELIGION, GIVE UP THEIR CULTURE, AND THAT WAS WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF THEM.

>> Eric: IF IT WAS A FEDERAL PROGRAM, HOW DID THE CHURCHES GET INVOLVED IN MINNESOTA?

15 OF THEM, THERE WERE 15, I THINK, CHURCH -- >> YEAH, YOU MAY HAVE A BETTER HANDLE ON THAT NUMBER THAN I DO BECAUSE I'VE BEEN SOMEONE WHO'S JUST STUDIED THE OFF-RESERVATION FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BOARDING SCHOOLS, WHICH STARTED WITH CARLISLE, AND THEN ENDED, ACTUALLY, IN THE 1930s UNDER FDR.

BUT THERE WERE SEPARATE, OF COURSE, CHURCH ORGANIZATIONS THAT ALSO HAD SCHOOLS.

>> Eric: WELL, DO WE THINK THERE ARE UNMARKED GRAVES IN PIPESTONE, WHATEVER'S LEFT OF THE PIPESTONE?

>> YOU KNOW, WHAT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE A NUMBER OF THE BOARDING SCHOOLS HAD CEMETERIES AND THE OTHER THING ABOUT THIS 50-YEAR PERIOD WHEN BOARDING SCHOOLS DOMINATED INDIAN EDUCATION, IT WAS ALSO THE ERA OF TUBERCULOSIS.

AND THERE WERE VERY HIGH DEATH RATES AMONG CHILDREN.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC OF 1918, '19 BECAUSE OF OUR RECENT EXPERIENCE, THAT WAS ALSO VERY DEVASTATING TO YOUNG PEOPLE, IN PARTICULAR, AND IT WAS VERY DEVASTATING IN THE BOARDING SCHOOLS.

AND, SO, THERE WERE CHILDREN WHO DIED IN BOARDING SCHOOL.

MY SENSE WAS FROM READING RECORDS AND LETTERS THAT IT WAS MORE COMMON IN THE UNITED STATES FOR CHILDREN TO BE SENT TO A T.B.

SANITARIUM OR TO GO HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES IF THEY WERE GRAVELY ILL.

I THINK THAT WAS THE PREFERENCE OF THE SCHOOLS AND THE PEOPLE WHO RAN THE FEDERAL BOARDING SCHOOLS IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT SOME OF THE SCHOOLS, LIKE HASKELL IN KANSAS AND OTHERS, HAD CEMETARIES.

>> Cathy: IS THERE A LINGERING TRAUMA IN THE NATIVE COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THIS HISTORY?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THERE IS A LINGERING TRAUMA.

IF WE THINK ABOUT THAT ERA, AND I'M SOMEONE WHO -- MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A STUDENT AT ONE OF THE OFF-RESERVATION SCHOOLS IN SOUTH DAKOTA, MY GRANDFATHER PLAYED FOOTBALL WITH JIM THORPE AND WAS A CARLISLE STUDENT.

HE HAD KIND OF A GREAT EXPERIENCE IN BOARDING SCHOOLS.

BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ASSOCIATE THE BOARDING SCHOOLS TODAY IN A VERY NEGATIVE WAY BECAUSE OF THE LOSS OF LANGUAGE, THE CULTURAL CHANGES EXPECTED OF INDIAN PEOPLE, AND IN SOME WAYS IT'S KIND OF COME TO SYMBOL APPROXIMATIZE HE WORST ASPECTS OF FEDERAL POLICY.

SYMBOLIZE.

SO MAYBE THE TRAIL OF TEARS OR WOUNDED KNEE, IT HAS BECOME KIND OF SYMBOLIC OF VERY BAD POLICIES THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS PURSUED AGAINST AMERICAN INDIANS.

>> Cathy: IS THIS HISTORY KNOWN WITHIN THE COMMUNITY?

>> THIS HISTORY IS KNOWN WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.

IN FACT, I STARTED DOING RESEARCH VERY EARLY IN MY GRAD SCHOOL CAREER ON THE HISTORY OF THIS BECAUSE MY GRANDMOTHER SAID, CARLISLE BOARDING SCHOOL, SHE SHOWED ME PHOTOGRAPHS OF HER DAD WHO AD BEEN A STUDENT AT CARLISLE, AND, SO, THERE ARE STORIES.

THE HISTORY'S PRETTY WELL KNOWN IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS JUST KIND OF WAKING UP TO THIS IDEA THAT FOR 50 YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE AMERICAN INDIANS BEGAN ENTERING PUBLIC SCHOOL THAT BOARDING SCHOOLS AND FAMILY SEPARATION WAS THE DOMINANT POLICY FOR EDUCATION.

>> Cathy: IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

>> THANKS FOR INVITING ME.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

>> ERIC: MORE THAN HALF OF MINNESOTA IS EXPERIENCING SEVERE OR EXTREME DROUGHT.

AND ALL OF THE STATE IS DRY.

THAT'S LED TO A SIGNFICANT THREAT OF FIRE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

SEVERAL FIRES IN THE BOUNDARY WATERS AND THE SUPERIOR NATIONAL FOREST ARE BURNING RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS ALSO A WILDFIRE NEAR BEMIDJI.

HAZE FROM THE FIRES IN MINNESOTA AND MUCH LARGER ONES IN CANADA CAN BE SEEN IN MUCH OF THE STATE.

JOINING US FROM ELY TO TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT FIRE SITUATION, NATIONAL FOREST SERVICE SPOKESPERSON CATHERINE KOELE.

Ms. KOELE, WHAT IS THE LATEST ON THE FIRE SITUATION?

IS IT UNDER CONTROL?

WHAT WOULD YOU -- HOW WOULD YOU SSESS IT?

>> WELL, WE HAVE A COUPLE THINGS GOING ON, ERIC.

RIGHT NOW I'M REPRESENTING THE FOREST SERVICE WITH THE EASTERN AREA MANAGEMENT TEAM ON THE DELTA LAKE FIRE.

SO IT'S A SMALL FIRE, BUT IT'S A CHALLENGING FIRE.

IT'S RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEAVY BLOW-DOWN AREA, SO WE HAVE A LOT OF DOWNED TREES AND TIMBER, AND IT'S MAKING THINGS VERY CHALLENGING.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES, WE'RE GETTING A HANDLE ON THINGS, THINGS LOOK GOOD TODAY ON THIS ONE.

WE'VE ALSO HAD QUITE A FEW OTHER SMALLER FIRES, MOST OF THOSE HAVE BEEN CONTAINED.

BUT THE REAL THING THAT WE'RE KEEPING OUR EYE ON UP HERE ARE THOSE CANADIAN FIRES.

WE DEFINITELY -- THERE'S A LOT OF ACTIVITY UP THERE.

MOST OF THE SMOKE THAT WE'RE SEEING IN OUR STATE IS ROM THOSE FIRES UP IN CANADA.

>> Eric: DELTA LAKE FIRE IS ABOUT 20 MILES FROM ELY, IT WAS LIGHTNING CAUSED.

YOU SENT US SOME PICTURES.

MAYBE WE CAN LOOK AT THOSE AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FIRE-FIGHTING EFFORT THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT FOUR CREWS, OVER 100 FOLKS HERE MANAGING THIS EFFORT FROM ALL OVER THE EASTERN AREA.

MY TEAM, WE'RE MADE UP OF 50 FOLKS, INTERAGENCY, SUPPORTING THE SUPERIOR NATIONAL FOREST.

THEY HAVE A LOT GOING ON.

SO, OUR JOB IS TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT PRESSURE OFF OF THEM SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO DO THINGS, DEAL WITH CLOSURES, RECREATION, ALL THE THINGS THAT WE LOVE TO ENJOY IN THE SUMMER ON OUR NATIONAL FORESTS.

>> Cathy: I UNDERSTAND, CATHERINE, THAT THE FIRES IN CANADA, THEY'RE NOT REALLY BEING ACTIVELY FOUGHT.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

CANADA IS REALLY BUSY RIGHT NOW, PARTICULARLY IN ONTARIO.

I LOOKED AT THE MAP JUST A LITTLE IT AGO, JUST TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

LOTS AND LOTS OF ACTIVITY.

THE PROVINCIAL PARK IS A TENDER AREA WHERE THEY LIKE TO MONITOR FIRES AND LET FIRE DO ITS THING.

IT'S NOT HEAVILY, YOU KNOW, RECREATING OR INHABITED.

SO, UNFORTUNATELY, THE BAD NEWS IS, FOR US, THAT THEY'RE IN A MONITOR STATE.

AND UNTIL THEY COME TO THE BORDER OF THE U.S. >> athy: ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THEM JUMPING IN HE REMEMBERS IT OF JUMPING THE LAKES AND REALLY AUSING SOME HAVOC IN THE BWCA?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS A CONCERN.

YOU KNOW, FORTUNATELY, THE WINDS HAVE BEEN IN OUR FAVOR OVER THE LAST WEEK THAT WE'VE BEEN HERE.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SOME LIGHT WINDS, THOUGH, VERY DRY, VERY WARM, SOME LOWER HUMIDITY.

THE WINDS HAVE BEEN IN OUR FAVOR.

CROSS YOUR FINGERS THAT CONTINUES.

AND WE HAVE SOME WATER IN BETWEEN US, BUT CERTAINLY THE WAY THAT THE DROUGHT CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN, WE EXPECT TO SEE SOME SPARKS, SOME LONG-RANGE SPOTTING THAT COULD CAUSE SOME ISSUES.

>> Eric: FIRE IN THE FOREST IS PART OF NATURE'S WAY.

I WONDER HOW YOU KIND OF SEPARATE WHAT IS GOOD FOR FOREST REGENERATION TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS A FIRE-DEPENDENT ECOSYSTEM.

WE RECOGNIZE THAT.

HOWEVER, IT'S NOT ON OUR TERMS.

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL BEEN KIND OF COOPED UP IN A COVID ENVIRONMENT, AND FOLKS ARE READY TO GET OUT AND RECREATE.

THE FOREST IS SEEING VERY VERY HIGH NUMBERS, THE OUTFITTERS HERE ARE DEALING WITH RESERVATIONS, SO THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS GOING INTO THIS, WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS WITH.

AND WE RECOGNIZE THE NEED FOR FIRE.

AND YOU ARE GOING TO SEE SOME BENEFITS FROM THESE FIRES, GOOD AND BAD.

YOU KNOW, BUT THE REALITY IS, IT IS A PUBLIC SAFETY IF WE HAVE FOLKS RECREATING UP THERE.

>> Cathy: SO ARE YOU SHUTTING DOWN SOME OF THE ENTRY POINTS TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM GETTING IN AND MAYBE GETTING INTO SOME AMOUNT OF TROUBLE, POSSIBLY?

>> YEAH.

THE NATIONAL FOREST HAS ISSUED A COUPLE CLOSURE ORDERS.

SO SPECIFIC ENTRY POINTS ARE GOING TO BE CLOSED, PARTICULARLY AROUND THE DELTA FIRE AND IN THE NORTH BY THOSE CROOKED LAKE AREA, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO ASSESS THAT, WE LOOK AT IT EVERY DAY TO DETERMINE IF THAT'S THE RIGHT MOVE AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO BASED ON THAT FIRE ACTIVITY.

SO MY ADVICE, IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO VISIT THE BOUNDARY WATERS IN THE COMING WEEKS, AND ACTUALLY PROBABLY THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO BECAUSE IT'S STILL PRETTY EARLY IN THE FIRE SEASON, MAKE SURE YOU HECK THOSE RESOURCES, THEIR WEBSITE, FACEBOOK BEFORE YOU GO AND CHECK WITH YOUR OUTFITTER AS WELL.

>> Eric: CATHERINE KOEHLE FROM ELY, APPRECIATE YOUR UPDATE.

>> Cathy: STAY SAFE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CATHY: AN HISTORIC STANDOFF TOOK PLACE AT THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE THIS WEEK.

IN ORDER TO BREAK A QUORUM AND STOP VOTING LEGISLATION THEY OPPOSED, DEMOCRATS IN THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE LEFT THE STATE, VENTURING TO WASHINGTON, D.C.

IN A WEEK WHEN EXCERPTS FROM A NEW BOOK ABOUT THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY IS MAKING HEADLINES, THE TEXAS EVENT UNDERSCORES HOW POLARIZED AMERICA IS WHEN IT COMES TO VOTING AND THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

WE TAKE UP THAT TOPIC WITH OUR NEXT TWO GUESTS, LONGTIME OBSERVERS OF THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SCENE.

LARRY JACOBS HEADS THE CENTER OF POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE HUMPHREY SCHOOL AT THE U OF M. MICHAEL MINTA IS ALSO A POLITICAL SCIENTIST AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

PROFESSOR JACOBS, LET'S TALK ABOUT TEXAS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT SITUATION?

>> WELL, IT'S, LIKE EVERYTHING IN TEXAS, IT HAS DRAMA AND IT'S LARGE AND IT'S THE WHOLE BALLPARK.

I DO THINK THAT THERE'S A KIND OF HYPING OF SOME OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

THERE ARE SERIOUS ISSUES.

BUT ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS WHEN COVID HIT, DEMOCRATS WERE ABLE TO PUSH FORWARD THE KIND OF CHANGES HAT WOULD OPEN UP AND MAKE ELECTIONS EASIER, MORE CONVENIENT.

AND NOW WE'RE SEEING REPUBLICANS PUSHING BACK AND TRYING TO REVERSE SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

THERE WAS A TERRIFIC SUPREME COURT ORAL ARGUMENT FOR THE ARIZONA LAW, AND THE ADVOCATE FOR ARIZONA SAID, LOOK, IT'S A ZERO SUM GAME.

AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE ABLE TO EXPAND THEIR VOTING BASE AND IT'S AT OUR DISADVANTAGE.

THE COURT ENDED UP RULING FOR ARIZONA.

SO THIS IS, I OULD SAY, POLITICS, YOU KNOW, THE WAY WE'VE SEEN IT FOR GENERATIONS.

WHETHER IT HAS A BIG EFFECT IS AN OPEN QUESTION.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT ON THE FEDERAL SCENE, PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS IN PHILADELPHIA THIS WEEK TELLING AN AUDIENCE RELATING TO GOP LEADERS, HAVE YOU NO SHAME IN RESTRICTING THE VOTE.

IS THERE SOME HOPE FOR SOME FEDERAL ELECTION LAW PASSING OR NOT?

>> NO.

AS LONG AS THE PARTIES ARE DIVIDED, YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS, THEY HAVE A VERY SLIGHT MAJORITY, SO THEY DON'T HAVE A FILIBUSTER PROOF APPROXIMATE IN ORDER TO GET THE VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATION PASSED.

I DON'T SEE IT NOW.

THE HOUSE, I MEAN, THEY'RE PASSING STUFF, A LOT FOR SYMBOLIC REASONS.

THEY KNOW THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO PASS.

AND THEN MAN SHIN, SENATOR MANCHIN FROM WEST VIRGINIA, KRISTIN FROM RIZONA HAVE ALREADY SAID, THEY'RE NOT IN FAVOR OF MODIFYING THE FILIBUSTER.

SO FOR RIGHT NOW, I DON'T SEE ANY TYPE OF LEGISLATION, BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME STATES, RIGHT, THAT ARE PASSING, AS WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE STATES THAT ARE PASSING RESTRICTIVE LAWS, THERE ARE PLENTY OF STATES THAT ARE PASSING MORE EXPANSIVE LAWS THAT ARE TRYING TO INCORPORATE MANY OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE SEE IN TEXAS, LIKE 24-HOUR VOTING, MAIL-IN BALLOTING, KEEPING MANY OF THESE PRE-COVID-TYPE PROCEDURES IN PLACE.

SO WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, TOO.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT SPEECH BY JOE BIDEN IS -- HIGHLIGHTS ONE OF THE MAIN DIMENSIONS HERE, WHICH IS THE ACTUAL IMPACT OF THESE APPARENTLY RESTRICTIVE LAWS, NOT THAT HUGE, AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS, NOT HUGE.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS IS BECAUSE THE COUNTERMOBILIZATION.

THE KEY FACTOR HERE IS THE CAMPAIGNING AND THE RESOURCES THAT GO INTO CHARGING UP THE BASE.

>> Eric: WELL, SURE, YEAH.

>> SO WHEN JOE BIDEN SAYS,S THIS THE BIGGEST DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGE SINCE THE CIVIL WAR, HE'S GOT A PARTICULAR CONSTITUENCY IN MIND AND HE'S THINKING ABOUT 2022.

HE'S CHARGING UP HIS TROOPS TO GET READY TO GO VOTE.

>> Eric: THERE'S A BUDGET RESOLUTION, THEN THERE'S -- IN THE SENATE, THEN THERE MIGHT BE A VOTE ON THE 3.5 TRILLION AND THEN ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, IN A VERY SHORT TIMELINE, SENATOR SCHUMER, I GUESS IS CALLING FOR VOTES STARTING NEXT WEDNESDAY.

HOW IS ALL THAT GOING TO SETTLE?

>> ELL, I MEAN, I JUST DON'T THINK THERE'S -- I MEAN, YOU SEE THIS BIPARTISAN COMMITTEE OF SENATORS TRYING TO GET SOMETHING DONE, BUT SENATOR McCONNELL HAS ALREADY SAID THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO SUPPORT.

HE GOES BACK AND FORTH, I'M FRIENDS WITH JOE BIDEN, WANT TO DO SOMETHING, BUT THEN HE'LL GO BACK AND SAY, AH, THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE BECAUSE INFRASTRUCTURE, HOW DEMOCRATS DEFINE IT AND HOW REPUBLICANS DEFINE IT IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

I MEAN, DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CLIMATE, CLIMATE CHANGE AND ALL OF THESE TYPES OF THINGS, AND REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, LOOK, THIS IS INFRASTRUCTURE, THE BRIDGES AND ROADS.

I DON'T SEE -- I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO PREDICT CONGRESS, ESPECIALLY NOW, I HATE TO TRY TO MAKE THESE PREDICTIONS, BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO GET IT DONE.

>> I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE THAT IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

I DO THINK SOMETHING'S GOING TO PASS, IT WILL BE LARGE, IT WILL BE HISTORIC.

BUT THERE WILL BE PROGRESSIVES WHO WILL BE FURIOUS.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, ON THE CLIMATE CHANGE PART, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF DEMOCRATS, JOE MANCHIN COMES FROM A COAL-BURNING STATE.

>> Eric: WEST VIRGINIA.

>> AND HE IS NOT GOING TO SIGN ONTO THAT.

SO I COULD SEE THAT GETTING WATERED DOWN.

BUT THERE'S A WHOLE LOT IN THERE ON INFRASTRUCTURE, ON MEDICARE EXPANSION, HEALTH REFORM, CHILD CARE.

THERE'S SO MUCH IN THERE.

I THINK A LOT OF THAT'S GOING TO MOVE.

THE BIG CAVEAT HERE IS RECONCILIATION, IT'S ONLY ONE OR TWO YEARS.

SO IT GETS PASSED, THERE'S A BIG CELEBRATION, AND THEN PEOPLE ARE WONDERING, WILL IT STICK ROUND?

>> Cathy: THE TRUMP BOOKS ARE OUT, WHICH ARE KIND OF INTERESTING TO READ AND SOME INTERESTING EXCERPTS AND SOME TIDBITS.

WILL THE INFORMATION HURT HIM IF HE DECIDES TO RUN?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN THE BOOKS.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> SO I DON'T KNOW.

>> Cathy: IT'S ALL RIGHT, IT'S GOOD.

>> I'VE BEEN READING THE EXCERPTS, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR HIS NOMINATION, WHICH IS THE KEY ISSUE, IT'S ONLY GOOD.

BECAUSE HE HAS THE LOVE OF THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS.

AND WHAT'S COME OUT, HE'S BEEN SPINNING IT, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HURT HIM WITH THE NOMINATION PROCESS.

I THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION IS, DOES HE WANT TO DO IT?

AND AFTER HE GETS RUNG THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS, WHICH IS AN ONCOMING MACK TRUCK HEADING FOR DONALD TRUMP, IS HE GOING TO HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE WHEREWITHAL TO DO IT?

I'M SKEPTICAL WHETHER DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY RUNS IN 2024.

THERE'S A PRETTY DEEP BENCH RIGHT NOW FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

>> Eric: LOOKING FOR ADVICE HERE.

HOW SHOULD THE MEDIA COVER FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP?

HOW DO YOU THINK THEY'RE DOING SO FAR?

POST HIS PRESIDENCY.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT IT'S FAIR TO STILL COVER HIM.

BECAUSE TRUMP EMBODIES A MOVEMENT OF, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATISM THAT'S GOING FAR TO THE RIGHT, AND TRUMP USUALLY, HE TAPPED INTO THAT MOVEMENT SAYING THAT, LOOK, THE PROPORTION OF THE WHITE ELECTORATE IS SHRINKING IN AMERICA AND HE'S PULLING ON KIND OF THESE CLASSIC TROPES OF RACIAL RESENTMENT AND THAT PEOPLE THAT AREN'T AMERICANS, THAT ARE BLACK AND BROWN, DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU AND YOU NEED TO RISE UP.

SO THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING SOME OF THE STUFF ON THIS CRITICAL RACE THEORY THAT VICE PRESIDENT -- FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE IS TALKING ABOUT AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MAKE AN ISSUE AND, SO, I THINK THAT THAT'S A STRATEGY THAT REPUBLICANS ARE EMPLOYING AND IT WORKED FOR TRUMP IN 2016.

IT SOMEWHAT WORKED IN 2020 BECAUSE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T GAIN AS MANY SEATS IN THE HOUSE AND THEY DIDN'T WIN AS MANY OF THE SENATE SEATS AS THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO WIN.

SO I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO KEEP PLAYING THIS STRATEGY UNTIL IT NO LONGER WORKS.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S A PARTISAN PRESS.

SO, YEAH, HE'S GETTING HAMMERED WITH CNN AND MSNBC, BUT -- FOX AND SOCIAL MEDIA CONSERVATIVES ARE RIGHT BEHIND HIM.

I THINK THE BIG ISSUE THAT I SEE EMERGING, I'M SURE THE REPUBLICAN CONSULTANTS DO, IS CRIME.

YOU LOOK AT THE POLLING ON CRIME, IT'S JUST LIKE BLINKING RED LIGHT FOR DEMOCRATS.

THERE'S MORE THAN SIX OUT OF TEN AMERICANS SAY IT'S EXTREMELY OR VERY SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM AND THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THE POLICIES BEING PURSUED.

SO I THINK DONALD TRUMP AND THE MEDIA'S COVERAGE OF HIM, I THINK DEMOCRATS MAY BE HOPING THAT TRUMP IS KIND OF ON THE BALLOT, VISIBLE, IN '22 BECAUSE HE MOBILIZES THEIR BASE, WHICH MAY BE A LITTLE DISENCHANTED, FATIGUED WHEN '22 COMES AROUND.

BUT I THINK THIS ISSUE ABOUT CRIME IS A HUGE ISSUE AND DEMOCRATS SO FAR DON'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE IT.

>> Cathy: MIDTERMS USUALLY, TRADITIONALLY THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN MIDTERMS.

BUT WE'RE IN SUCH ODD TIMES.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS?

>> YEAH.

THAT'S TOUGH TO PREDICT.

I MEAN, EVERYONE'S -- USUALLY THE PRESIDENT -- THE PARTY THAT JUST WON THE PRESIDENCY'S GOING TO LOSE SEATS.

AND, SO, REPUBLICANS ARE KIND OF ANTICIPATING THAT.

BUT, YOU'RE RIGHT, WITH THE PANDEMIC AND, I MEAN, THERE WAS GREATER TURNOUT IN THIS PAST ELECTION, SO I DON'T KNOW, AND THEN THE LAST MIDTERM ELECTIONS, I MEAN, DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY TURNED OUT AT A HIGHER RATE.

SO I DON'T KNOW -- I THINK IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON HOW THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DEALS WITH THE CORONAVIRUS, HOW THEY DEAL WITH THE ECONOMIC STIMULUS, GETTING THE TAX CREDITS TO FAMILIES FOR CHILDREN.

I MEAN, THEY'RE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO TRY TO KEEP UP.

BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS WILL LOSE SOME SEATS.

BUT WHETHER THEY HOLD ONTO THE HOUSE, I DON'T KNOW.

AND WHETHER THEY HOLD ONTO THE SENATE, I DON'T KNOW.

>> Eric: WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

THANKS, FELLAS.

>> Cathy: THANKS, OOD TO SEE YOU.

>> CATHY: IT'S THE PART OF SHOW WHEN WE ASK YOU HISTORY QUESTIONS, AND YOU TAKE A SHOT AT ANSWERING THEM.

HERE'S A PHOTO OF FOUR U OF M STUDENTS WHO WOKE UP IN MID JANUARY 1944 TO DISCOVER THAT THEIR CLASSES WERE CANCELLED FOR THE DAY.

THEY WERE HAPPY, I'M SURE.

DOZENS OF PATIENTS WERE DISCHARGED THAT DAY FROM THE UNIVERSITY HOSPITALS DUE TO THE SAME REASON.

CLASSES REMAINED CANCELED UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF THE FOLLOWING WEEK.

YOUR JOB IS THIS.

TELL US THE CAUSE OF THE CANCELLATION.

WHY DID THE U OF M CANCEL CLASSES IN JANUARY OF 1944?

THINK OF THE TIME OF YEAR.

THINK OF WORLD WAR II.

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